Anthropocentrism

[Kuba Powiertowski]

It is good to remember that anthropocentrism underlies many, if not all, of our assumptions. As if the experience of the evolution of homo sapiens was the highest achievement of existence and almost the only one in this category. The very appearance of homo sapiens is shrouded in mystery. Before homo sapiens, there were over 20 species of man. Not hominids, just humans. They coexisted and peacefully evolved like everything else. Only the cognitive revolution, which took place in the blink of an eye, created homo sapiens, which immediately began exterminating everything that stood in its way. It exterminated other species of homo and most large mammals wherever sapiens migrated. In general, if it multiplied faster, then, after eliminating everything that lives, it would probably exterminate itself. Like Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax in D, Adams's novel "Life, Universe, and Everything." Conflict is undoubtedly inscribed in this dimension of existence, but is its extreme form - war - a condition sine qua non of evolution? I dare doubt. It is also worth delving deeper into the mystery of why the homo sapiens experience happens at all. In fact, this is the dumbest animal on the planet and utterly unnecessary from the general point of view of life on Earth.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

I think of Aborigines and other more Earth-connected cultures and tribes where anthropocentrism is almost completely off narration...

[Breakingthewall]

homo sapiens is a mystery and an absolutely strange being. no animal can understand concepts. With titanic efforts, the most intelligent primates have been taught to add up to 6 (if I remember correctly). A sapiens from 100,000 years ago, teleported to today as a baby, could learn quantum physics. why? There is no other mammal behind capable of learning but only up to algebra for example. It's either all or nothing. It seems that there is nothing that the human mind cannot understand. its capacity for abstraction is enormous. a complete tool. the human is capable of colonizing galaxies and the entire universe, with the necessary time for it. to modify genetics, achieve immortality, become a cyborg capable of living on jupiter. there are no limits to what the mind can do. It's possible a future with totally selfless humans God-realized, AI-powered ,immortals, exploring every corner of the cosmos.

[Leo Gura]

Be careful assuming that pre-humans were peaceful. And even if they were that is only because there were so few of them relative to the size of the territory and they lacked technology.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

@Kuba Powiertowski War occurs because humans have the ability to hold their own opinions and strong beliefs, and are willing to fight in order to implement them. Other species do not have the same level of desire as humans, the drive that causes them to leave home and face death in battle.

[Girzo]

@Breakingthewall you are forgetting whales, the OG geniuses, dolphins are damn smart too. It's not that they can't do algebra. It's we who can't communicate with them.

Humans' power is not in being intelligent, it's in us being copycats. We are better monkeys than monkeys, copying each other's habits, inventions. This way only a few people have to be smart and come up with useful things.

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Girzo said:

@Breakingthewall you are forgetting whales, the OG geniuses, dolphins are damn smart too. It's not that they can't do algebra. It's we who can't communicate with them.

Humans' power is not in being intelligent, it's in us being copycats. We are better monkeys than monkeys, copying each other's habits, inventions. This way only a few people have to be smart and come up with useful things.

Yeah , maybe a whale is enlightened, who knows. And sure that it's better to be a whale or a dolphin than a human. But only the humans can work with the concept, and connect themselves in series as processors via language to increase processing power. The human being is destined to break all limits

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Time will tell. One thing is for sure. Suppose we want to continue this adventure under the title of homo sapiens. In that case, we must reprogram our mindset from the mode of opposition, resistance, and the state of permanent war that lasts in our minds into the mode of synchronization with what is with life on our planet. And here, we still have a lot to learn from nature. Otherwise, no technology, A.I., and other science-fiction ideas won't help here. I will only add that climate change on Earth, the logarithmic pace at which it is taking place, and a complete lack of idea in which direction it will go (many different models show different scenarios) will throw most of humanity far beyond its comfort zone in the very short future. Most of us here will experience it. But perhaps it has to be. Fortunately, the cognitive revolution has not deprived us of the capacity for self-reflection. It's harder to draw and implement conclusions. Nothing will change as long as the agenda of the separated ego shitting itself out of fear is in the first place. The only difference in quite a short future might be that it will implement its moronic ideas in other spaces of the universe for some time as long as it doesn't see how utterly stupid what it's doing.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

And by the way, God, You can do far better than this.

[Superfluo]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And even if they were that is only because there were so few of them relative to the size of the territory and they lacked technology

But if there were lots of them and they had technology, given that mature enough technology requires enough cognitive/cultural development, wouldn't they have been like us?

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

The only difference in quite a short future might be that it will implement its moronic ideas in other spaces of the universe for some time as long as it doesn't see how utterly stupid what it's doing.

what is being done is not stupid, it is a constant attempt to adapt as perfectly as possible. try and failure. look at history, human beings do not skimp on suffering when it comes to adapting. If 80% of the population must starve to death at any given time, what? what is important is the evolution of the species, the individual is absolutely irrelevant, it does not even exist as such, it is a fiction. We think we have some control over the path we follow as egos with free will, and we don't.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Breakingthewall Perhaps it is as you say. To me, the history of humanity appears more like a history of madness, which only it does not collapse because, in each episode of this drama of mass craziness, there are strong counterbalances in the form of individuals (sic!) - saints, enlightened, geniuses who can deflect this trajectory leading to a catastrophe by their actions that the mass does not finally hit the wall at full speed. There are also factors such as fortunate coincidences or so-called accidents, which I call the retreat of science. I prefer the word providence. It may be divine. In contrast, the claim - I am human, and I can't help it - is a clever excuse for the ego to maintain its comfortable status quo. Which is, again, simply stupid (sorry, that's the Luciferic part of me I can't help)

[Inliytened1]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:57 AM, Kuba Powiertowski said:

It is good to remember that anthropocentrism underlies many, if not all, of our assumptions. As if the experience of the evolution of homo sapiens was the highest achievement of existence and almost the only one in this category. The very appearance of homo sapiens is shrouded in mystery. Before homo sapiens, there were over 20 species of man. Not hominids, just humans. They coexisted and peacefully evolved like everything else. Only the cognitive revolution, which took place in the blink of an eye, created homo sapiens, which immediately began exterminating everything that stood in its way. It exterminated other species of homo and most large mammals wherever sapiens migrated. In general, if it multiplied faster, then, after eliminating everything that lives, it would probably exterminate itself. Like Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax in D, Adams's novel "Life, Universe, and Everything." Conflict is undoubtedly inscribed in this dimension of existence, but is its extreme form - war - a condition sine qua non of evolution? I dare doubt. It is also worth delving deeper into the mystery of why the homo sapiens experience happens at all. In fact, this is the dumbest animal on the planet and utterly unnecessary from the general point of view of life on Earth.

You would be better served looking into the nature of reality and not into the nature of mankind.  Get to the root.  Mankind is a subset.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Inliytened1 Notice that you face a lot of resistance whenever you leave this shared anthropocentric point of view. Both in the scientific and spiritual environment. Doesn't matter. And the forum is where we enjoy (try at least) existential philosophy, at best, not mysticism. As you know, the process called mysticism, the return to the source, takes place in being, not in talking. So I don't get your point.

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

To me, the history of humanity appears more like a history of madness, which only it does not collapse

many times it collapses. the apocalypse has been repeated many times. total fall of the established order, hunger, cannibalism, death... to re-emerge again and again. It is not a story of madness but of sanity. Do you think it is something easy to organize into systems of millions of individuals and that this last?

Since you are Polish, I suppose you have studied the Russian Revolution a bit. how about? all those people were doing their best to make a good system for the human being, fighting against the chaos that was threatening from everywhere. with their best intentions they committed the greatest atrocities to finally have to give up, realizing that you cannot swim against the current.

things are extremely difficult. Starting a small business is difficult and requires a lot of energy. organizing a civilization is a miracle. It's theoretically impossible. organize the roman empire, or the industrial revolution...they are more natural phenomena than human facts

[Inliytened1]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:57 AM, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Only the cognitive revolution, which took place in the blink of an eye, created homo sapiens, which immediately began exterminating everything that stood in its way.

Notice your bias here.   When you delve into reality via mysticism it will be free of bias. It must be.  And yes, mysticism is beyond language.  But it starts with simple meditation and lack of thought.  Here, you are deeply engaged in thought.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Inliytened1

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Notice your bias here.

 

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Here, you are deeply engaged in thought.

I am aware of that. Thank You anyway. It is always good to keep awareness sharpened

@Breakingthewall

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Since you are Polish, I suppose you have studied the Russian Revolution a bit. how about? all those people were doing their best to make a good system for the human being

Not all those people! Never! One idea of Nikolay Czerniszewski based on - again stupid - anthropological principle, from which he derived the idea - this is total idiocy - of a rational egoist - was cleverly corrupted by the peasant elites oppressed by the bourgeoisie, hungry for what? - a rhetorical question - mainly power and bloody revenge. Below is a link to a nice study on the subject. Use a translator and enjoy reading.

https://depotuw.ceon.pl/bitstream/handle/item/289/Marcin Zwiercan - praca doktorska.pdf?sequence=1

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

things are extremely difficult

1000% agreement here

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

from which he derived the idea - this is total idiocy - of a rational egoist - was cleverly corrupted by the

Absolute idiocy, because they were humans. nobody invented the roman empire, nobody invented capitalism. no one could! at most they could do shit like communism. complex systems that work have a life of their own, they are not the creation of any genius. the collective ego is a living being.

Thanks for the link, i will read it

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Notice also how anthropocentric solipsism can be. How many of you, after God-realization, still have a problem with the existence, the manifestation of beings utterly alien to us? As if man was the only highest, most perfect manifestation, the incarnation of God. I'm afraid it's precisely the opposite, which is an excellent opportunity to progress if you are aware of it. And entities utterly alien to us, as well as those more known (although not liked by us and vice versa:) exist in the same sense as homo sapiens. In God's Imagination, let's say. Always question the obvious, what seems to you to be obvious. Is your God's realization full? Leo recently discovered that might not be so. I know he is right that there are other, totally non-human realizations of consciousness. Some of them advanced to an unimaginable degree. Call them imagined stories of existence if you like. It doesn't change anything. Just like different dimensions of reality, humans (in the sense of the human mind) are unaware of and often deny their existence in advance! Why? Just because of our dull anthropocentrism.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Notice also how anthropocentric solipsism can be. How many of you, after God-realization, still have a problem with the existence, the manifestation of beings utterly alien to us? As if man was the only highest, most perfect manifestation, the incarnation of God. I'm afraid it's precisely the opposite, which is an excellent opportunity to progress if you are aware of it. And entities utterly alien to us, as well as those more known (although not liked by us and vice versa:) exist in the same sense as homo sapiens. In God's Imagination, let's say. Always question the obvious, what seems to you to be obvious. Is your God's realization full? Leo recently discovered that might not be so. I know he is right that there are other, totally non-human realizations of consciousness. Some of them advanced to an unimaginable degree. Call them imagined stories of existence if you like. It doesn't change anything. Just like different dimensions of reality, humans (in the sense of the human mind) are unaware of and often deny their existence in advance! Why? Just because of our dull anthropocentrism.

Dude. Man is just one dream of God.   Just as is a lion.  Or any creature.  God morphed into human form because of man's intellect and ability to feel emotions.   But most of all - to self reflect.   This ability is only gifted to humans so that they can awaken.