Why do I see from my eyes and not yours? Why am I me and not you?(answered )

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

But, I have in my understanding unified that to even the room I am in.

Yes, the room is within consciousness, but the room is a sense perception.

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard to you. I think I know where our understanding/ view differs. All good ?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Thought Art

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard to you

Why call it a room if it's just concsciousness?

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Why call it a room if it’s just sense perception? 
 

When I play a video game, why not just call it a screen?

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Why call it a room if it’s just sense perception? 
 

When I play a video game, why not just call it a screen?

You keep saying everything is just consciousness (which is true), but then you're making distinctions like "room". I'm just putting those distinctions in a category called sense perceptions, which is what you do to understand things. Room is also a category, just a less inclusive category. Of course you know the difference between consciousness with a room in it and consciousness without a room in it, so you know the difference between consciousness and a sense perception.

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Yeah, I mean that’s fine I guess

[Osaid]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

Cessation is ALL of that ? What a Flexible definition. Because these things you mentioned are not the same thing . Ego death is when your sense of self dissolves . Samadhi is when you experience oneness with everything. 

From what I've gathered, cessation seems to be another way of referring to turiya/pure consciousness, which can be described as existence/consciousness without any content.

In all fairness, such an experience would include "feeling one" and "ego death" all at once.

I tried asking for clarification on what it is on that one thread about cessation, but everyone just ignored me and continued on their arguments lol

Edited January 9, 2023 by Osaid

[Someone here]

10 hours ago, Osaid said:

From what I've gathered, cessation seems to be another way of referring to turiya/pure consciousness, which can be described as existence/consciousness without any content.

In all fairness, such an experience would include "feeling one" and "ego death" all at once.

I tried asking for clarification on what it is on that one thread about cessation, but everyone just ignored me and continued on their arguments lol

Sorry i didn't see your previous post .

Well,"cessation " in Buddhism has a very specific and concrete definition..unlike what @Carl-Richard suggests.  Its the passig away of all sensory experience until all you are left with is a void . And this is actually a very distinct thing than ego death and Samadhi.  And it requires incredible degrees of mindfulness and you gotta go really deep in meditation before you manage  to stop even your thoughts and emotions.

Actually...it's not that these STOP, but that they stop controlling you. Thoughts, emotions, feeling and perception never stop while we have a functioning brain … they are part of the human condition. What Buddhists learn to do is to relax and not be pushed around by those things .. to reside in full and open awareness of the moment instead. Which is very difficult because all our HABITS are to be constantly distracting outselves FROM the qualities of this moment, and sometimes that includes dwelling in the past or hoping tomorrow will be better.

Anyways ..to get back to the original topic of this thread ..what is your explanation that you see from your eyes and not mine ? Why are  you ,you ? And not me ?

[Someone here]

22 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

That's not necessarily the case. If I turn off the radio, that doesn't mean the radio station doesn't exist.

Correct .but remember that this was just an analogy . In our case here with consciousness..there is not the equivalent of "radio station" that is displaying the radio waves .

Consciousness doesn't arise from the brain or from atoms or any physical substratum ..consciousness IS the substratum. 

I can't really convince you that what you're conscious of right now is the only thing that exists (aka solipsism). Just Sit down and look at your hands for hundreds of hours until you realize that this hand is all that exists .

The problem is you already know this ...but the mind comes up with constant stories and conceptual overlay that contextualise the present moment.  For example you believe that you're in a house right now ..in a country ..in a planet ..In a solar system..in a galaxy..in a universe etc . None of that is actually true .there is nothing outside the walls of your house .until you decide to move out .just like in a video game. The frames appear only when yon enter them .

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Sorry i didn't see your previous post .

Well,"cessation " in Buddhism has a very specific and concrete definition..unlike what @Carl-Richard suggests.  Its the passig away of all sensory experience until all you are left with is a void . And this is actually a very distinct thing than ego death and Samadhi. 

They're directly intertwined with each other, and you would know that if you have had any of those experiences. Sure, if we want to be autistic about it, you can have ego death and oneness without cessation, but you can't have cessation without ego death and oneness. Cessation is like I said when you let the effects of ego death and oneness maximize to the point where even sense perceptions (which are dualistic in nature) also disappear, and you're left with non-duality in its purest form.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

They're directly intertwined with each other, and you would know that if you have had any of those experiences. If it wasn't clear enough, you can have ego death and oneness without cessation, but you can't have cessation without ego death and oneness. Cessation is like I said when you let the effects of ego death and oneness maximize to the point where even sense perceptions (which are dualistic in nature) also disappear, and you're left with pure non-duality.

I think you are really conflating cessation with nirvana or liberation . Although this is taking us away from the original issue in this thread (why am I me and not you?).

In Buddhism , Nirvana is the extinction of emotional defilements.

 Cessation is the disappearance of all sensory perception when going deep into meditation. . But extinction of sensation is not realisation of YOUR TRUE SELF. 

Actually in Buddhism THERE IS NO ANY KIND OF TRUE SELF ANYWHERE TO BE FOUND . So are you aware of that? 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Someone here

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Correct .but remember that this was just an analogy . In our case here with consciousness..there is not the equivalent of "radio station" that is displaying the radio waves .

Consciousness doesn't arise from the brain or from atoms or any physical substratum ..consciousness IS the substratum. 

You don't really know that.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

The problem is you already know this ...but the mind comes up with constant stories and conceptual overlay that contextualise the present moment.  For example you believe that you're in a house right now ..in a country ..in a planet ..In a solar system..in a galaxy..in a universe etc . None of that is actually true .there is nothing outside the walls of your house .until you decide to move out .just like in a video game. The frames appear only when yon enter them .

Nothing in life suggests that the stories my mind comes up with are false. In fact, just the opposite. Everytime I go outside, my home remains when I come back. I consider that a counter-proof for solipsism. Solipsism is a story that doesn't hold water, while other stories do. At least, as far as I'm concerned as a human.

[Sincerity]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Everytime I go outside, my home remains when I come back. I consider that a counter-proof for solipsism. Solipsism is a story that doesn't hold water, while other stories do.

Consider that the illusion/dream is not dumb but infinitely intelligent and perfect, and so you're not gonna see a black hole one day in the place where your house was for years. There won't be any glitches like this, there's no room for accidents or imperfection.

I'd say You're not appreciating how convincing and perfect the illusion can be (and is). Most people when they think of illusions they get kinda cocky and think that they'd be able to see through them. Well, no.

The way to prove solipsism (for yourself) is to directly awaken, which You can do. Also the many illusions of the dream (like time, control, selfhood, etc.) can be deconstructed and seen through with deep contemplation but You're gonna need some "divine clarity" for that  Having "past" spiritual experiences helps.

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

You don't really know that.

Nothing in life suggests that the stories my mind comes up with are false. In fact, just the opposite. Everytime I go outside, my home remains when I come back. I consider that a counter-proof for solipsism. Solipsism is a story that doesn't hold water, while other stories do. At least, as far as I'm concerned as a human.

There is no way to disprove solipsism, because anything that is non- contradictory is logically possible. So unless there is a contradiction in solipsism, it's possible that only you exist.

For the same reason, it is also possible that the “Simulation Hypothesis” is true, or that we are all “ brains in a vat” (Hillary Putnam's update of Descartes' “evil demon”), or that we are all in a teacup about to be drunk.

Logical possibility is one thing, but judgments of probability/plausibility will, of course, differ.

I don't know how would you go about proving an external world.

You are projecting the idea that what you are experiencing right now has a deeper independent reality to it. Which you call the external objective world. You Believe the world exists when you are not perceiving it. 

 recognize it’s a more of convoluted belief system that requires extra mind baggage that careful and direct study of experience and reality does not need. In fact.. if you studied your direct experience long enough you’d notice all sensory perception has no solidity to it at all.. it’s just a fluid.. spacious.. fluctuating field of is-ness popping into and out of a void. the “objective” reality science thinks is out there is quite literally impossible if they knew what they were actually studying, which is perception. The thoughts that think there’s an objective layer are also popping into and out of this void. This  requires an extremely stable...mindful concentration of what is really happening vs what your mind thinks is happening. 

Again all this is off topic. I want someone to explain to me why am I me and not you ? I provided my explanation. Do you agree or disagree with it ?and why ?and what is your take ?

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

You don't really know that

Are you consious of the brain ,or are you brain of conscious ?? 

Which is first order and which is secondary?  Which is actual and which is conceptual? 

Thousands of years have passed and science can't solve the mind-body problem. Because they are coming at it from the materialist paradigm. 

[Gesundheit2]

13 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Consider that the illusion/dream is not dumb but infinitely intelligent and perfect, and so you're not gonna see a black hole one day in the place where your house was for years. There won't be any glitches like this, there's no room for accidents or imperfection.

I'd say You're not appreciating how convincing and perfect the illusion can be (and is). Most people when they think of illusions they get kinda cocky and think that they'd be able to see through them. Well, no.

The way to prove solipsism (for yourself) is to directly awaken, which You can do. Also the many illusions of the dream (like time, control, selfhood, etc.) can be deconstructed and seen through with deep contemplation but You're gonna need some "divine clarity" for that  Having "past" spiritual experiences helps.

If what you're saying is true, then awakening is impossible and I shouldn't even try to awaken. And I don't just mean shouldn't in the practical sense, but also in the moral sense. If this dream is absolutely perfect as you claim, then it is meant to remain that way and the illusion should not be destroyed, not that that is even possible to begin with as I stated earlier.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Again all this is off topic. I want someone to explain to me why am I me and not you ? I provided my explanation. Do you agree or disagree with it ?and why ?and what is your take ?

Sorry for being off topic. I haven't read the OP yet 

[Sincerity]

21 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

If what you're saying is true, then awakening is impossible and I shouldn't even try to awaken. And I don't just mean shouldn't in the practical sense, but also in the moral sense. If this dream is absolutely perfect as you claim, then it is meant to remain that way and the illusion should not be destroyed, not that that is even possible to begin with as I stated earlier.

Ok, we're talking about two different illusions.

The dream as in "physical reality" like your house or hand will not (and can not) be destroyed when You awaken, because it is Absolute and perfect. 

The illusion that it is real, solid, material, external, that there is a you in here, that you have control and you're localized in time and space and you're gonna die can be shattered - which is the result of awakening. In one sense this illusion (maya, ignorance) is perfect but also what's perfect is the shattering of it. You can absolutely see through if You want to. It's just You realizing what You are - there is no one stopping You from You but you

One is Reality, the other is thoughts and ignorance. (Of course thoughts are Reality too)

Edited January 9, 2023 by Sincerity

[Gesundheit2]

Okay, I read the OP, and here's my answer:

I think us humans mainly differ from animals in that we have the ability to use our imagination for various purposes, including putting ourselves in other people's shoes, aka empathy. This ability varies from one person to another, but it's basically there for most people, at least as a seed or a potential that can grow. Some animals show certain levels of empathy, but they're very limited compared to a human. Our brains are smart enough and can allow imagining similar scenarios that aren't experienced exactly before, the brain does this assimilation through approximation. So, with this particular aspect that is called empathy, we are capable of guessing what it would be like to experience conditions that differ from our own, but are still somewhat relatable. The more diverse experiences we have stored in our brains, the stronger this ability gets. The more we develop as species, the stronger our empathy gets.

Now, what does this have to do with occupying a certain body and a pov? Well, considering my "rooms" theory, I believe that if we evolve enough, at a certain point in time, we will be able to shift our presence in between bodies and povs. And it will be like going out of your room, and inside another one next to it. The further we develop, the farther the room. Other beings do this already, but we cannot see them. They live at energetically higher levels than us, and are able to enter and exit our bodies whether we notice them or not. Some of these beings are basic, like anger or happiness for example. And some of them more complex, like psychosis, schizophrenia, and paranoia. I'm not very fluent in this energy talk, that's just my basic understanding. It could be right or wrong, but it's interesting.

[Sincerity]

I prefer the more general question "Why is reality the way it is?". Or "Why this particular experience?". Both point to the same.

The question "Why am I me and not you?" implies a me and you. Which is wrong assumptions from the get-go. BUT the starting curiosity/intuition is good!

It's nice that You've had inquiries like this since a young age. There's certainly a spark in You 

On 1/4/2023 at 8:30 AM, Someone here said:

Then a few months ago ..I stumbled upon Leo's solipsism video ..and since then my whole life changed and there is no going back . I awakened to what Leo calls "Absolute Solipsism "

And so now I'm satisfied with my conclusions. I'm finally at peace of knowing why am I me.  Because I'm God. The only being in the universe. 

"Your conclusions" is not the name of the game. It's Godhood.

You're not awake, but You can be.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Sincerity

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I believe that if we evolve enough, at a certain point in time, we will be able to shift our presence in between bodies and povs

The point is that if you change your pov to another pov, it will remain your pov. You can't get out of your pov, ever. your pov is absolute. If you reach god pov and access infinite povs simultaneously, it will still be your pov. By definition, only your pov exists.