Why do I see from my eyes and not yours? Why am I me and not you?(answered )

[Thought Art]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

To think that you are the only person that truly exists is ludicrous.

Why? Why would anyone else exist given that only consciousness exists, and all is one? How would you prove that those other people exist? How would you prove a physical world exists? Oh, wait you can't because it's only you observing it all. Other people only exist in consciousness, which is you. There is only one perspective. and it's, you.

You may then say "Yeah, well why do other people seem to exist, with unique personalities, preferences, ideas. How come I can meet people and feel their energy, touch them, talk to them etc" Well, that doesn't disprove solipsism. Mind can imagine all your own finite personality traits... IT can do that with an infinite amount of different traits and dream those traits (which are your own) as a pseudo "Other" which is just you.

What's the difference between billions of humans existing in "One" Reality.... and "One" conscious being imagining all beings". Consciousness, your own consciousness right now is more fundamental than all your ideas and concepts. If you are on a street with thousands of people, how do you know you aren't just as alone as when you are in your room by yourself meditating. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Carl-Richard]

Imagine that you're auditioning for a play. You're sitting in the audience with the other auditionees while watching each person go up on stage and performing their rendition of the character. You're all very good actors and have practiced your lines very well. You all know the same lines and you understand the emotional appeal of the character and how the actor needs to feel during the act.

You go up on stage and deliver your rendition of the character. After you're done and the audience gives their applause, you sit back down again with the other auditionees who just delivered their act. You talk to some of them and you say: "ah, now I understand how you guys felt up there! I was very nervous in the beginning, but when I got to the very emotional part, I remembered your guys' delivery and it seemed like I managed to pull it off as well". Some of them answer: "yeah, didn't that part feel amazing once you were able to get into the zone and deeply express the pain and sorrow of the character?" And you answer: "oh yes, it was very moving".

Now, out from those experiences, what on earth would indicate that it was only you who experienced the emotional depth of the character, or that it was only you who experienced other people delivering their rendition of the character? I believe that solipsism can only be a result of being so stuck inside your intellectual mind that it overshines any obvious clues from other dimensions of life, i.e. the more social and emotional dimensions. You have to deny all your experiences of deeply connecting with people and understanding their thoughts and feelings. Again, if this is not what you mean by solipsism, you should drop the term.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

45 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Why? Why would anyone else exist given that only consciousness exists, and all is one?

Do you know the difference between a sense perception and pure consciousness?

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard Do you know you imagine that difference? 

Consciousness is Pure, and all you are is consciousness. Doesn't matter the content of the dream, it's still just you dreaming it. 

Your "sense perceptions" are absolute consciousness just taking some finite shape, in some way, but, It's always Now. Always just eternity, always just all all alone, always sovereign, just dreaming finite distinctions. 

Your story of the play other doesn't change anything. I am saying that yeah, you are an infinitely powerful dreamer... You dreamt up all those differences. That someone else felt something, that you were ignorant of certain things. maybe you even spilled some water on yourself when someone was walking past you and bumped into you. See, if you think you are fundamentally human this doesn't make sense. You are not. You are Consciousness. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard Do you know you imagine that difference? 

Answer the question.

[Thought Art]

@Carl-Richard I am telling you there is no difference.

 

[Gesundheit2]

12 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Carl-Richard I am telling you there is no difference.

There can be a difference that technically might not be. When you imagine a distinction, a difference emerges. This imaginary difference that emerges is just that, an image in your consciousness. That doesn't make it non-existent, though. Imagination and existence are not necessarily opposites. Truth and falsehood can overlap if you blur the distinctions between them.

[Gesundheit2]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

There might not be "separate " self in reality .I will grant you that . But there is infinite SELF or Self with a Capital  S. And that is everything that exists . You believe that the universe exists ,right ? Now let me ask you a simple tricky question..where does the universe exist ? 

Do you exist inside the universe or does the universe exist inside you ? If you pay attention you will notice that the entire universe takes place within your consciousness.  Including your body and what we call the external world..they both exist within consciousness. Evident by if you close your eyes the universe will be gone temporarily. And if you fall asleep, the whole universe collapses . So it's clear that everything is a figment of your consciousness. I didn't find any strong counterpoint against this line of reasoning. But if you disagree..please go ahead and explain to me where I'm incorrect.

Imagine a room with a window and you're inside the room looking through the window from the inside out. You see the world around you through this little window.

Does the world around you cease to exist if you close the window or look away?

Does a blind person who doesn't have a window not have a room?

[Thought Art]

27 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

There can be a difference that technically might not be. When you imagine a distinction, a difference emerges. This imaginary difference that emerges is just that, an image in your consciousness. That doesn't make it non-existent, though. Imagination and existence are not necessarily opposites. Truth and falsehood can overlap if you blur the distinctions between them.

Well, he is saying.. realize the difference between my sense perceptions and pure consciousness. I am saying that, my sense perceptions are made of pure consciousness. I am even imagining my sense organs, but they are relative.

[Gesundheit2]

8 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Well, he is saying.. realize the difference between my sense perceptions and pure consciousness. I am saying that, my sense perceptions are made of pure consciousness. I am even imagining my sense organs, but they are relative.

The thing with this terminology that you're using is that it already determines and reinforces a certain hierarchical structure and an order between "pure consciousness" and sense perceptions. It sets up a system of thinking or a narrative with one possible interpretation, while it ignores other systems. He is pointing to another system.

The keyword here is imagination. You're using it to nullify certain differences that he's trying to communicate to you. If you think about what he said without referring to imagination as a source of authority, there might be something interesting to see there.

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 Idk man, I am actually saying the opposite of a hierarchical structure. In fact, HE is saying that. Not me.

I am pointing at Oneness.

Oh, the paradoxes in this comment ahah

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

id say that the issue is: my pov is the absolute, there is nothing outside of my pov, it is impossible by definition. and, your pov is the absolute, etc. my pov is your pov, but at a different "moment". It's like I'm talking to my past self. for him, I am imaginary. for me, he is. reality plays with time and overlaps infinite moments. It's easy when you create the time.

[Thought Art]

For the longest time I thought Carl Richard's image was a peacock and now I a see its more something abstract ahaha

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

id say that the issue is: my pov is the absolute, there is nothing outside of my pov, it is impossible by definition.

I don't get this. Wouldn't something outside of your pov be impossible by definition? Because it "Isn't".

I am saying, that... It's just this. Right now, the Everything Now is Imagining it's talking on a forum to "Others" about solipsism.

Why? It doesn't matter. It's just my dream, and it's entertainment. 

Welcome to the Everything Nowwwwwwww

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

don't get this. Wouldn't something outside of your pov be impossible by definition? Because it "Isn't".

In the eternity of existence, is there going to be, or has there been, any different dream than you are looking at the screen of your phone right now? If the answer is yes, where is that dream? was it dreamed, in the past? but if time is not real...

[Thought Art]

@Breakingthewall Yeah, so. You are the absolute "Right Now" imaging a relative backstory.

You have an infinite pool you can pull from. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Gesundheit2]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Gesundheit2 Idk man, I am actually saying the opposite of a hierarchical structure. In fact, HE is saying that. Not me.

I am pointing at Oneness.

Oh, the paradoxes in this comment ahah

It might seem that what you're saying is devoid of hierarchy, but it is not. It is setting up "pure consciousness", "oneness", or "the absolute" at the top as a first-order phenomenon, and sense perception, the self, and the relative down below as second-order stuff. It's implicit and subtle, but still there.

In any case, and even if you don't believe in or advocate for hierarchies, the preference against hierarchies is still a hierarchy in and of itself, even though on a meta level.

Be aware of the meta narratives that the mind constructs. They can go very deep.

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 Not exactly, there is a paradox here. I am saying that sense perception, or any content is still pure consciousness. It doesn't matter the form it takes. 

There is a paradox, or strange looping nature here. 

Can't you see the paradox of saying that "Oneness" is a hierarchy to any aspect of itself? There is a sort of dualistic impression there. 

I am not saying I don't believe in hierarchies either. I am saying that all this is relative. 

Like, in reality there is no difference between a cup, and the colour yellow. Or, an orgasm and a rock.

I am saying, there is this ONE THING. ONLY ONE THING EVER. ONE THING FOREVER. ONE THING.

This one thing, is The Absolute Truth, which is Consciousness, which is an infinite shape shifter and self reference. 

A book shelf and the absolute have no difference. A sun rise, with your girlfriend watching it, holding hands is no different than watching a porno as you feel sad and disgusted with your loneliness. These are just sides of the infinite Coin of Oneness.

A hierarchy, may exist within this oneness but is itself a falseness. Again, there is a paradox here. It's subtle. It sounds like a hierarchy.. But it's not. It's all Truth, through and through. Just differentiating itself.

Infinity, can have no true hierarchy because all is equal. No matter where you go you are in the centre.

Like, truth and falsehood exist within Truth. Whether it's true, or false if it is that case it is True.

More than, less than

Before or after... all these dualities collapse... And then, its just you. Always been there. Always doing whatever. Totally absolute for eternity, just shape shifting, dreaming. Nothing else to do. Everything to do. Always something new. If you dream it to be true.

You could say... The Absolute Truth is false. The Absolute Truth is true. The absolute Truth is that there is no truth. Yet, it's being said, it is. It transcends all the language and human sense making.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Gesundheit2]

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Gesundheit2 Not exactly, there is a paradox here. I am saying that sense perception, or any content is still pure consciousness. It doesn't matter the form it takes. 

I see what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that this is not necessarily absolutely true. In other words, sense perception is pure consciousness, yet at the same time it's also not pure consciousness, as it has (or at least seems to have) properties, which pure consciousness does not. So in one sense, they are the same. And in another, they are not. Hence the distinction and the different labels. Carl is trying to get you to see why there is a distinction in the first place, even though you might call it an imaginary distinction, which is technically true but might be implying certain misunderstandings and/or misinterpretations. There is a truth and a value to understanding this.

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 Yeah, I can see relative distinctions. I can sense what he is pointing at. But, it's a false distinction. 

 You are imagining that pure consciousness cant be a certain way which it is and it's as it is right now.

Like, there's something you could do to access pure consciousness and that is false.

I am saying there is no distinction, and trying to get you to see that in the first place.

Like, when I totally dissolve and am absolute there is not finite distinctions. I experience this often. Yet, here I am.

Finite, distinct, human, on a planet, with others, needing to survive. None of that disproves solipsism. The fact that I am speaking to you is a way in which I am, a state of this consciousness. But, there's really nothing here.  

Edited January 7, 2023 by Thought Art