Nothing is beyond science but our lack of knowledge

[r0ckyreed]

I want to steel man science.  I feel like a lot of people take Leo's critique of science without actually thinking about it for themselves.  One of the dangers of dismissing science as "a human dream" or whatever seems like a straw man and is no different logically than a religious nut dismissing science.  I feel like that is a serious trap.  When we critique science, we are merely explaining its limitations.  

But I am going to argue that there are no limitations to science.  To quote Ms. Grant from Life is Strange Episode 4: "Nothing beyond science except for our lack of knowledge. We may never know why, but that doesn't change reality."

Science is merely about truth and understanding.  However, I do understand Leo's critiques in that mainstream science is narrow and is full of biases.  But what people may not consider is that even doing psychedelics is a form of science.  Why are we accepting the mainstream cultural definition of what science is?  If mainstream views science in a narrow way, we should be showing them more advanced ways of doing science. The wrong approach is associate all of science with mainstream science.  

I truly am convinced that there is nothing beyond science but our lack of knowledge.  Reality exists as it is whether or not we agree with it.  I am not going to pretend like I know anything, but anything we say is "beyond or transcends" science is within science in the same way that you might argue that whatever is beyond consciousness is inside of consciousness.  We may not be aware or know much about our reality.  But there is even a science to voodoo, witchcraft, potion making, cooking, spirituality, psychedelics, math, meditation, religion, psychology, parapsychology, awakening, etc.

Nothing is beyond science but our lack of knowledge.

If you think science is a dream, then I could also say that awakening is a dream.

I even question whether awakening is even possible or if it is just another dream within the dream.  Reality to me is too profound to be known or understood.  What even is the difference between an awakening and an insight?  It seems like people who say they have had an awakening are really meaning that they have had an insight.  You can have an infinite amount of insights. But I doubt that total awakening is even possible.  If reality is infinite, then that means that it will always been infinitely mysterious and you can never fully awaken to it.  We have so much finite time in this form.  The part can never grasp the whole.  Awakening is an illusion but we can do the best we can.  What else is there to do?

Edited January 2, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

science tries to understand the finite, it has nothing to do with the infinite. science is within the finite, it is a creation within this experience that takes shape in the infinite. it is appearance.

The absolute infinity can't be touched by science because science is a creation of the absolute infinity 

[How to be wise]

@r0ckyreed Your mistake is trying to make science relevant everywhere. Science is very important in deducing third-person reality, but it has no business (nor should it) in first-person spirituality. Let science be science and spirituality be spirituality.

[michaelcycle00]

Science stops where human limits start. Paradoxes for example. We will never understand them and therefore we won’t transcend them in the form of information or knowledge either.

Science is not a separate entity apart from Absolute Infinity so that it could study it from the outside (which doesn’t even make sense since it’s infinite), it’s just Infinity in one of infinitely many finite forms. 

[Leo Gura]

The only way science could do the job is if you expanded your definition of science to include everything you call not-science.

Which means you might as well say: not-science is capable of knowing all of reality.

And you would be right.

The whole problem is that scientists do not want to allow not-science.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Kuba Powiertowski]

The scientific community is slowly discovering that Reality is much more than they assumed and that there is no way for the human brain to generate consciousness. And that there are more questions than answers. For now, a few world-renowned scientists can admit it, but their number is slowly growing each year—such little coming-outs. But don't assume that science will prove anything to you. What you are lies far beyond the concepts of even the brightest human mind. When I say the human mind, I mean the mind, which is taking as its reference point a 3D projection of space + time considered as a separate, external reality that is the source of experimental data.

[SourceCodo]

22 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

science tries to understand the finite, it has nothing to do with the infinite. science is within the finite, it is a creation within this experience that takes shape in the infinite. it is appearance.

The absolute infinity can't be touched by science because science is a creation of the absolute infinity 

This is useless and circular. 
 

“has nothing to do with”

 

”yet is contained within” 

 

Being contained within means it is part of. Science is just another aspect of the infinite which is used to describe and articulate itself.

Biased scientific thinking limits possibility, science itself does not. 

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@r0ckyreed Your mistake is trying to make science relevant everywhere. Science is very important in deducing third-person reality, but it has no business (nor should it) in first-person spirituality. Let science be science and spirituality be spirituality.

Well you could always consider first person spirituality science as well. For example in India they consider Yoga Science even though done correctly it is supposed to become a private first-person form of spirituality. So I would say the limits of what science is, is created by the individual. Mysticism can be viewed as science if one is willing to increase the boundaries of the term. 

For me personally, everything is science, everything is art, I'm not so restrictive as someone else might be. To each their own.

[Jacob Morres]

In a vacuum science is great but I think bc of human biases and limitation science gets held back. 

[r0ckyreed]

All dualities must collapse.  Spirituality = Science