Cessation vs God realization

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, axiom said:

There is actually no such thing as consciousness. That is what the 8th Jhana points to. That's the whole shebang.

The reality is the absolute infinity, and nothing else could be. 

[PenguinPablo]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Man, don't be a clown, please. We are talking in a forum about the cessation. Obviously the only approach is intellectual . Cessation is a word. What that word means? I think it doesn't mean nothing,  just an invention of people who meditate a lot to make themselves interesting and special.

never lose sight of this fact: in spirituality there are many pretentious idiots trying to compensate for a wounded ego.

it's not an invention. it points to something experientially. particularly all the "world building" and "suffering" that is constructed within your own mind. This is obvious if you've ever been in a fit of rage or some other intense emotion. When you come down from that you might even realize how your ego is making a mountain out of mole hill. So in a sense that is a type of cessation. Like a rage-aholic mastering their emotions and becoming a chill dude over time. The thing is a full cessation takes it further. EVERYTHING within experience is CONSTRUCTED. And everything within experience is subject to attachment, thus suffering. 

This is why cessation is so nice. Because if you completely let go, all tension in your body, in your mind, would release. 

Going through this again and again.... even though you do comeback to living your life, changes your relationship to it. Thus clinging and attachment will naturally diminish and you realize how silly it is. 

The average person looks like a fool to someone that understands this because there is no point in holding on so tightly and thus causing yourself and others so much strife.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[PenguinPablo]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The reality is the absolute infinity, and nothing else could be. 

Por que no los 2?

Why not both?

 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

it's not an invention. it points to something experientially. particularly all the "world building" and "suffering" that is constructed within your own mind. This is obvious if you've ever been in a fit of rage or some other intense emotion. When you come down from that you might even realize how your ego is making a mountain out of mole hill. So in a sense that is a type of cessation. Like a rage-aholic mastering their emotions and becoming a chill dude over time. The thing is a full cessation takes it further. EVERYTHING within experience is CONSTRUCTED. And everything within experience is subject to attachment, thus suffering. 

This is why cessation is so nice. Because if you completely let go, all tension in your body, in your mind, would release. 

Going through this again and again.... even though you do comeback to living your life, changes your relationship to it. Thus clinging and attachment will naturally diminish and you realize how silly it is. 

The average person looks like a fool to someone that understands this because there is no point in holding on so tightly and thus causing yourself and others so much strife.

 

 

That is the cessation of the ego. Of course that this is real. But this is not the cessation that the op or bipolargrowth are talking about. They are talking about the cessation of the conciousness. This is impossible, if it were the case, it's just non existence. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[PenguinPablo]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That is the cessation of the ego. Of course that this is real. But this is not the cessation that the op or bipolargrowth are talking about. They are talking about the cessation of the conciousness. This is impossible, if it were the case, it's just non existence. 

It's all part of it. There's layers to this. Yes... all the way to non existence. It is possible. Universities are literally doing studies on advanced meditators undergoing this experience. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

It's all part of it. There's layers to this. Yes... all the way to non existence. It is possible. Universities are literally doing studies on advanced meditators undergoing this experience. 

what you are saying is that someone, through meditation, induces himself into a state like propofol anesthesia. perfectly possible, why not? but does this mean anything? the experience that occurs is, shall we say, imagined. Within that experience is propofol anesthesia, deep sleep, and also cessation of meditation, which are basically just a time jump. what does this mean? Nothing. an achievement achieved with practice, like doing a double somersault. It is inside the dream, inside the apparently finite. 

[PenguinPablo]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

what you are saying is that someone, through meditation, induces himself into a state like propofol anesthesia. perfectly possible, why not? but does this mean anything? the experience that occurs is, shall we say, imagined. Within that experience is propofol anesthesia, deep sleep, and also cessation of meditation, which are basically just a time jump. what does this mean? Nothing. an achievement achieved with practice, like doing a double somersault. It is inside the dream, inside the apparently finite. 

You don't see the value because you haven't done it yourself, period.

Honestly, I would urge you to meditate a little bit more ?

Less thinking, more inquiry.

Cheers ✌️

Edited January 2, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[BipolarGrowth]

4 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

seriously? damn.

What states are beyond cessation and God realization? I'm actually super curious

Well those are going to be states that are usually pretty personalized. The one I was referring to for myself was something I call Absolute Divinity, but this term won’t really mean much to anyone as it was a pretty unique personal awakening to something which isn’t as commonly discussed. You can picture it as “seeing the white light” while already built upon the foundation of previous types of awakening that I’ve mentioned as well as others. Usually our verbal descriptions of one state versus another will not carry the same weight to those interpreting them. It’d almost be more accurate for me to assign numbers. 
 

Why I say these things are personalized is because a state beyond the more common ones will often combine various realizations, and by the time you have this many sophisticated parts to an experience like I’m pointing to, you’ll realize that no one out there is likely to experience such a combination just by sheer probability alone. 
 

I imagine this is similar in structure at least to some of the things we hear from Leo. When he says God Realization, it’s likely far more than just the initial realization that you are God and plays on a lot of personal and more unique realizations he’s had in the past culminating to a greater peak experience as well as peak in understanding. 
 

I don’t really like to spend much time talking about these sorts of states that arise because the chance you can actually convey what you’d like to to someone is quite low and would take a lot of time and honesty required of both parties involved. As soon as someone has an attitude of “oh I see what you mean” or is trying to judge the profundity of your experience too quickly, too many ego games are playing at that point for anything productive to happen from the discussion. 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Who is the one that experiences cessation? Who experiences Nothingness?

"I" has many names:)

[Breakingthewall]

27 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

You don't see the value because you haven't done it yourself, period.

Honestly, I would urge you to meditate a little bit more ?

Less thinking, more inquiry.

Cheers ✌️

2 hours ago, axiom said:

 

You don't even explain anything, and you immediately come out disqualifying. Dick contest???.

If you understand something you can develop it, if you don't really understand it, you go off on a tangent, like Leo does when you ask him about solipsism. wake up you stupid piece of trash fagot!? 

Anyway, thanks for the conversation 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[PenguinPablo]

56 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You don't even explain anything, and you immediately come out disqualifying. Dick contest???.

If you understand something you can develop it, if you don't really understand it, you go off on a tangent, like Leo does when you ask him about solipsism. wake up you stupid piece of trash fagot!? 

Anyway, thanks for the conversation 

it's pretty simple to explain but the significance or gravity of these things cannot be grasped by wrestling with these ideas only mentally... especially not without an open mind. buddha said there is suffering because of attachment. well, what if you let go of everything including, existence? that's the cessation of suffering.  are you capable of doing that? and what would your relationship to existence be if you re-entered existence? a little less serious maybe? you probably don't even realize how serious you are about life. and to what extent. and how subtly. same goes for me. 

I dont know that much and I'm eager to learn a lot more. but when it comes to cessation and Buddhism, it's clear almost nobody on this forum knows what they're talking about. not sure why that is but it's obvious, except for the guys that have really taken meditation seriously--there's a couple. not saying this is the end-all-be-all but it's seems to be a facet of life. the harder you hold on, the more you hurt. clinging. trying to force things to be a certain way as opposed to how they are--changing.

but this isn't something you'll realize by me, or anyone else telling you. This is something you'll realize on a much more intimate level for yourself with experience, upon reflection, meditation, via your own investigation. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[spiritual memes]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Well those are going to be states that are usually pretty personalized. The one I was referring to for myself was something I call Absolute Divinity, but this term won’t really mean much to anyone as it was a pretty unique personal awakening to something which isn’t as commonly discussed. You can picture it as “seeing the white light” while already built upon the foundation of previous types of awakening that I’ve mentioned as well as others. Usually our verbal descriptions of one state versus another will not carry the same weight to those interpreting them. It’d almost be more accurate for me to assign numbers. 

Holy shit I think I've experienced this. It's the most intense awakening experience i've ever had where I had the most intense ego death I had ever experienced followed by me leavning my physical body, moving through a tunnel into a white light of infinite love. I was there for an infinite period of time as time was meaningless there. I was then thrust through another tunnel back into physical reality.

[axiom]

54 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

buddha said there is suffering because of attachment. well, what if you let go of everything including, existence? that's the cessation of suffering.  are you capable of doing that? and what would your relationship to existence be if you re-entered existence? 

Selfhood is attachment / attachment is selfhood.

You cannot let go, because you are not there to let go.

You cannot re-enter existence for the same reason you cannot rejuvenate your childhood belief in Santa Claus. Once the game is up, it’s up.

[Osaid]

Is cessation the same as turiya/pure consciousness?

[BipolarGrowth]

2 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

Holy shit I think I've experienced this. It's the most intense awakening experience i've ever had where I had the most intense ego death I had ever experienced followed by me leavning my physical body, moving through a tunnel into a white light of infinite love. I was there for an infinite period of time as time was meaningless there. I was then thrust through another tunnel back into physical reality.

It’s hard to tell if it’s the same thing, but it being your most intense awakening experience is a good sign at least. When I saw it, it was so stunning that I actually couldn’t perceive the source of it. I could only see the light around the outermost edge. Certainly the most breathtaking moment of my entire life. 10 tabs of LSD was like 1/1000th of the intensity of that moment. 

[spiritual memes]

8 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

It’s hard to tell if it’s the same thing, but it being your most intense awakening experience is a good sign at least. When I saw it, it was so stunning that I actually couldn’t perceive the source of it. I could only see the light around the outermost edge. Certainly the most breathtaking moment of my entire life. 10 tabs of LSD was like 1/1000th of the intensity of that moment. 

How did you reach this state?

[Leo Gura]

Cessation is a dream you invented to keep yourself sleep. Have fun playing your games.

[A_v_E]

if the goal of meditation is cessation, then would be more quick to hang yourself instead of trying to imitate the dead fish in the river.

guess coward prefer sit rather than stand

[axiom]

54 minutes ago, A_v_E said:

if the goal of meditation is cessation, then would be more quick to hang yourself instead of trying to imitate the dead fish in the river.

guess coward prefer sit rather than stand

People misunderstand cessation. There is only cessation already.

For a spiritually oriented meditator, the ultimate goal of meditation is “enlightenment”.

There is only cessation (no consciousness) and enlightenment is therefore already the case. 

It can be funny to watch people running in circles and jumping through hoops, thinking “they” are doing something to somehow get closer to what already is.

They are like particles of dust in a storm stuck in the belief that they can somehow control their own direction.

Nothing can make reality more real than it is already.

Edited January 3, 2023 by axiom

[PeaceOut96]

To much mindstuff, its fine to discuss spiritual topics. But as long you think there is a "you" experiencing this stuff than you are asleep. God is right infront of you in this present moment.