Why there is no agreement and there is confusion about what is the trurh?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So you did experience infinity on 5 meo

5 meo is just a tool, that stops synaptic activity in the frontal lobe of the brain and doing that the mind/ego stops. then what the mind is is revealed. it's quite simple 

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How do you know that? Of course we don’t know. We don't know what's "outside the observable universe”. we’re talking about regions of the universe with no causal connection to our own

if you stop the mind, you will see that the cosmos is the mind. everything is a creation of your mind. infinity is not the infinitely large cosmos, it is the bottomless void of consciousness that has no beginning or end. when you realize the infinite, there is no possible misunderstanding, since it is not something, it is the absence of something, of limits.

[Carl-Richard]

@Someone here Brother, if anybody as inquisitive as you ever has a mystical experience, they'll become an actual sage. Don't hold yourself back Aim to try some psychedelics, or go on a meditation retreat or something.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

5 meo is just a tool, that stops synaptic activity in the frontal lobe of the brain and doing that the mind/ego stops. then what the mind is is revealed. it's quite simple 

if you stop the mind, you will see that the cosmos is the mind. everything is a creation of your mind. infinity is not the infinitely large cosmos, it is the bottomless void of consciousness that has no beginning or end. when you realize the infinite, there is no possible misunderstanding, since it is not something, it is the absence of something, of limits.

I see what you're saying.  I just wanted a clarification on what do you mean by infinity. And I think I got it now.

You say "the bottomless void of consciousness"  ..that seems like a huge abstraction that has no actuality in direct experience. So I ask you to clarify further what do you mean by that? 

My own understanding of infinity is It's like you took a bottle of ink and you threw it at a wall. Smash! And all that ink spread. And in the middle, it's dense, isn't it? And as it gets out on the edge, the little droplets get finer and finer and make more complicated patterns, see? So in the same way, there was a big bang at the beginning of things and it spread. And you and I, sitting here in this room, as complicated human beings, are way, way out on the fringe of that bang. We are the complicated little patterns on the end of it. 

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Someone here Brother, if anybody as inquisitive as you ever has a mystical experience, they'll become an actual sage. Don't hold yourself back Aim to try some psychedelics, or go on a meditation retreat or something.

Thanks Carl. 

Well ,I really really tried to find psychedelics .I  almost searched the whole of Google to find weed dealers in India or even in a near country that I could travel to which is Thailand. And  until now I haven't found one .

Also ,are psychedelics mandatory for having a mystical  experience?

 there are countless reports of profound spiritual and mystical experiences that have occurred in the absence of psychedelics. These days I'm experimenting with lucid dreaming .not sure if that is good enough .

As for meditation...I don't need a retreat filled with a bunch of hippies lol.i think that's antithetical to the essence of meditation.

I meditate at home or out in nature .perfectly alone. 

13 minutes ago, musicandmath111 said:

@Someone here Because love is infinite. Love = Truth, period.

That isn't saying much .

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Also ,are psychedelics mandatory for having a mystical  experience?

No, but it helps kickstarting things.

 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

As for meditation...I don't need a retreat filled with a bunch of hippies lol.i think that's antithetical to the essence of meditation.

I meditate at home or out in nature .perfectly alone.

I'm talking about intensive 10-day retreats where you do basically nothing but meditating. It doesn't have to be through an organization, but that can certainly make some of the practical aspects easier.

 

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You say "the bottomless void of consciousness"  ..that seems like a huge abstraction that has no actuality in direct experience. So I ask you to clarify further what do you mean by that? 

Imagine taking your current experience and gradually removing all the contents. Start with the visual field, your sense of hearing, then the sensations in your body, smells, etc. What is left? That is the essence of reality: pure consciousness.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm talking about intensive 10-day retreats where you do basically nothing but meditating. It doesn't have to be through an organization, but that can certainly make some of the practical aspects easier.

Yes, there are dozens of such centers where I live .10 days vipassanna retreat.

But I have some excuses to not join one. A few points I found interesting are that firstly we have layers upon layers of memories and trauma buried in our bodies that we have no idea about. On one of these retreats you will begin to uncover and work through a whole Lotta stuff that you didn’t even know you were carrying. In the end though you will find that you walk out 50 pounds spiritually lighter.It will be extremely challenging.

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Imagine taking your current experience and gradually removing all the contents. Start with the visual field, your sense of hearing, then the sensations in your body, smells, etc. What is left? That is the essence of reality: pure consciousnessImagine taking your current experience and gradually removing all the contents. Start with the visual field, your sense of hearing, then the sensations in your body, smells, etc. What is left? That is the essence of reality: pure consciousness

Well let's try it experientially .. Close your eyes.. Strip away all sensory input... Just imagine removing reality out of existence .. Toss . Spot the now in the middle of it all. Find it. Identify as that. Is that what you mean ?

Because what comes to my mind is a black void . And I haven't ever experienced a black void in my life .so if that's what you mean by pure consciousness then I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. 

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

No, but it helps kickstarting things.

 

I obviously agree . Did you do any psychedelics yourself? 

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

My own understanding of infinity is It's like you took a bottle of ink and you threw it at a wall. Smash! And all that ink spread. And in the middle, it's dense, isn't it? And as it gets out on the edge, the little droplets get finer and finer and make more complicated patterns, see? So in the same way, there was a big bang at the beginning of things and it spread. And you and I, sitting here in this room, as complicated human beings, are way, way out on the fringe of that bang. We are the complicated little patterns on the end of it. 

Infinity, by definition, it cannot have a beginning. We cannot understand this with the logical mind since our mind processes everything temporarily. everything, apparently, is something that happens, this is because our mind is an appearance , a creation, but the infinity is not "happening"

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

You say "the bottomless void of consciousness"  ..that seems like a huge abstraction that has no actuality in direct experience. So I ask you to clarify further what do you mean by that? 

when you completely stop the logical mind, it happens that you are still aware, but without mind, then there is awareness of the void. emptiness has no limits and is not a pleasant experience. there is nothing, you have lost your mental structure so there is not a you but still there is awareness that reality is void. then something else happens, you realize that the experience of emptiness is a creation. You are creating that experience just as before you created the cosmos. you are the consciousness of the void, so there is a shift from the void to consciousness. Then the void is revealed as an infinite well from which existence flows. It is what it always was, what you are. you are depth without limit, actual, out of time. This can't be called 'you". But it's exactly what you were looking for. The perfection and the freedom. It's seen that the mind, your body, the cosmos in all its complexity is a mental creation that is happening right now. the past, the future, all the layers of the mind unfold as a creation of now. 

Anyway, I've had this experience about 6/8 times including dreams. this creates a constant partial opening, but not complete. so my explanation is flawed, it's partly from memory. and that kind of experience occurs at a frequency that makes memory unable to fix it, because the memory is a creation. what remains is a feeling of freedom. I think you have to force this opening more times, since each one leaves a permanent effect . 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Mu_]

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes ,..it's "all there is unfolding" ..that's the big picture . But I'm talking about relativistic truths . Like for example creationism VS evolution by natural selection.  Why there is debates everywhere around this subject ? Can't we find a bottom line to this debate and know with 100% certainty what's true and what's false regarding this issue or similar to it ?

Right. You’re missing the absurdity here.  The relative debating IS the unfolding, it doesn’t need to be reconciled as in solved. There’s nothing to solve about it. 
 

Leos alluded to this many times. The unfolding and the make up of exsistance and reality itself is experience. 
 
your seeing this relative debate as real things with actual objective relative truths.  The idea that there are relative truths is it self a type of experience reality provides, not an actuality or object that can be dissected to find an objective truth about it. 
 

it’s like waking up from a dream and asking why everyone floats in it and argues with each other. And then going about finding and coming up with reasons and objective laws governing why this happens.   Then your friend comes along and is like dude it’s just your imagination. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mu_

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

But I have some excuses to not join one. A few points I found interesting are that firstly we have layers upon layers of memories and trauma buried in our bodies that we have no idea about. On one of ?

Because what comes to my mind is a black void . And I haven't ever experienced a black void in my life .so if that's what you mean by pure consciousness then I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. 

It's more like a blank void, but it's not even a void, because it doesn't really extend anywhere. There is no point separate from another point. There is one point, a pure emanation. But yes, the descriptions are ultimately futile and don't make the experience justice.

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I obviously agree . Did you do any psychedelics yourself? 

I did LSD 3 times and weed ~1000 times, and then at one point after I discovered the concept of mindfulness, I spent a week in the mountains with my family doing active mindfulness 24/7 sober (with heavy weed withdrawals, which also meant no desire to masturbate), and at the tail end of that week, I did my 3 first seated meditations ever, and on the 3rd meditation, I awoke.

The thing about psychedelics, meditation, or any temporary change in state, is that it's a so-called "disruptive practice". It disrupts habitual functioning and allows for a constrast to arise, which allows you to become more aware of deeply ingrained mechanisms. Imagine being a fish that has only been in water all of his life. The fish doesn't feel the water at all. It doesn't know what it is, because it has always been in water and is fully habituated to the constant stimuli. If the fish is then suddenly lifted out of the water, they'll experience the constrast between water and non-water for the first time, and then as it re-immerses itself, it'll become more aware of the true nature of water. That is the essence of a disruptive practice.

The explanation for why I awoke when I did is not mainly the fact that I had smoked weed so many times or done LSD a couple of times, but that I had spent a week where I didn't smoke weed and also where I did something completely new (active mindfulness practice). This was in fact a massive confounding of several disruptive practices. And then on top of that, at the end of the week, I didn't go back to weed, but instead I did something I've also never done before: seated meditation. Essentially, that week was like a huge active meditation retreat with a chronic pharmacological disruption (weed withdrawal) as well as nofap (another disruption), as well as being in a different environment than my usual daily habits (skiing in the mountains), which then finally culminated in another completely new practice (seated meditation). This is what it takes to truly get underneath your own skin. You have to see how it's like without it, and sometimes you have to go to the extremes.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[tuku747]

On 12/30/2022 at 3:56 PM, Someone here said:

Why there is no agreement and there is confusion about what is the truth?

@Someone here

Let's remember that God is totally formless.
God simply has no name.
Thus there's a lot of confusion on what we should call God.
So much that people have fought holy wars over what we should call It.

But here's a deeper point for You, God:
By perceiving non-agreement, You Are Creating It.
Go find where people agree, and You will be creating less confusion. 
Or, start seeing agreement even where people think they disagree and You will create harmony
(I do this on Discord VC a lot and create harmony between people of different worldviews)
You Are God. Create Your Reality As You Wish.

Edited January 18, 2023 by tuku747

[EternalForest]

Well, you have to remember that there are certain things that everyone has to agree on to avoid chaos. For example, if everyone had their own idea of how traffic and driving should work, there would be constant accidents. Regardless of what your opinion is on the traffic system, you have to agree on it in order for the roads to be safe.

But then there are other things, such as religion and philosophy, that aren't as directly practical, and people are free to have their own opinions on it.

I think this is a difference that should be recognized in this discussion. Some days I am surprised that human beings can agree on enough for society to run as smoothly as it does!