Why is it so hard for Christians to see that they are God?

[Romanov]

All they do is talk about God. God this, God that. I would think that they would be the most ripe for the non dual understanding compared to atheists. The one man they worship knew he was God aka Jesus. There already is a role model that’s half man half divine. They don’t think that their belief in a transcendent God is asinine but yet they think it’s asinine to consider that they are God. 
 

How do you communicate to these people the nondual understanding without making them feel like they’re going against the Bible?

[How to be wise]

This is typical Stage Blue spirituality. 

[Ulax]

@Romanov Imagine someone tried to convince you that your family are a bunch of serial killers. I imagine, hopefully, that is something you are totally sure isn't true.

That level of confidence is the same level of confidence many of these christians have in their beliefs imo.

 

[vladorion]

Most Christians get very triggered if you tell them what they believe in is bs.

They're not that confident in their beliefs. But they will defend them tooth and nail.

[vishnusavestheday]

they have most difficulty believing a perfect God is capable of committing atrocious evil and devilry.

 

it's really quite simple. perfection does not equal imperfection. if they fall short of perfection, they are not god.

they don't leave room to beg any questions in that regard.

 

could I ask you a perfectly reversed question as a Christian would perceive it? it's the diametrical question that keeps them where they are. 

 

why is it so hard for sinners to see they are sinners? why is so hard for sinners to stay in sight that they are sinners?

...

for the same reason it is hard to see one is God all day long

 

[BipolarGrowth]

When you say God in the context of awakening and a Christian says God, two very different meanings are being conveyed. 
 

I don’t think it’s wise to try to mix Christianity with nonduality. Christianity has some nondual-esque things about it, but it is far from being nonduality. 
 

I actually think some of the most valuable things Christianity brings to the table are lost or reduced when people attempt to mix it too much with nonduality. One of those being a sense of humility. 
 

It takes a while for people to mature past the point that awakening to themselves as God does not amplify the ego to a staggering degree both on gross and subtle levels. Usually that maturation process includes a whole lot of blundering and rolling metaphorical 1s on a 20-sided die. 

[Michal__]

The goal of Christianity is to merge with God.

 

The methods they use is heavy contemplation (both focused on one thing for a long time, or all day of lighter topics) along with exercises to transcend the body (eg. Fasting) and mind.

 

Most supposed Christians aren't actually Christians. People who take it seriously can actually get a high degree of realization.

 

Of course there's a lot of dogma even among the people who do it the right way, but that's the same with Buddhism and every other religion. True Christians (that take it far enough) might be more realized than most famous Buddhists.

 

I'm not advocating for a religion but there's a huge difference between Christianity and Babyjesus-ism.

[roopepa]

Cause christianity is a projection of the ego-mind.

[Razard86]

12 hours ago, Romanov said:

All they do is talk about God. God this, God that. I would think that they would be the most ripe for the non dual understanding compared to atheists. The one man they worship knew he was God aka Jesus. There already is a role model that’s half man half divine. They don’t think that their belief in a transcendent God is asinine but yet they think it’s asinine to consider that they are God. 
 

How do you communicate to these people the nondual understanding without making them feel like they’re going against the Bible?

You can't its not on you, its on them. If you want to do an experiment read them this verse and watch them squirm.

https://biblehub.com/john/10-34.htm

https://biblehub.com/jeremiah/1-5.htm

https://biblehub.com/psalms/82-6.htm

https://biblehub.com/luke/17-21.htm

Now go have some fun as they squirm around and try to find reasons to tell you that you are wrong.

 

[Moksha]

Fundamentalist Christianity is an egoic bastardization of the original teachings of Jesus. Just as with eastern spirituality, there have been mystics within Christianity (St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Meister Eckhart, etc.) who saw beyond the ceremonies, idols, and tenets to the God within that they symbolized.

Nothing you say will make a difference until people are ready to realize the truth. When they are ready, the letters inscribed in the bible will burn until only the spaciousness of wisdom that they try to represent remains.

You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

- Psalm 82:6

Be still, and know that I am God.

- Psalm 46:10

The light of the body is the eye; if therefore your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.

- Matthew 6:22

The kingdom of God comes not with observation: Neither will they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

- Luke 17:20-22

Edit: @Razard86 Just read your post and realized that you already cited some of these gems 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Moksha

[vishnusavestheday]

On 12/30/2022 at 3:13 PM, Moksha said:

You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

- Psalm 82:6

Be still, and know that I am God.

- Psalm 46:10

The light of the body is the eye; if therefore your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light.

- Matthew 6:22

The kingdom of God comes not with observation: Neither will they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

- Luke 17:20-22

It is very true, that the Bible teaches nonduality. Adding to that, the religious life takes on new energy when one investigates the sense of self that considers itself "believer" at all. Awareness can't "believe" anything... it's incredulous for awareness to realize anything at all already. The function of the surviving "believer" identity shadows the awakening of God-realization in all cases.

 

The believer is always reaching for more context... 

 

But I've taken a semi-oppositional stance on this idea above--that the Bible teaches "sinnerism" rather than God-realization.

 

To elaborate, one could say that the Bible serves to help the inclined acknowledge partitioning acts--conscious choices--with humility as a consistently practiced theme through a redemptive arc. Personally, I take that as one of the better characteristics of the Bible compared to other religious books-- the humanity in purifying self-wickedness. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

It has been drilled into their heads that claiming that you are are God is one of if not the most blasphemous things you could possibly utter, and they believe that that puts them in danger of going to hell.  So fear, basically. 

[Breakingthewall]

they really say that they are god, only few understand it. They say that God is infinite. If something is infinite, there is nothing outside of it, therefore, you are part of God. if you are part of the infinite, you are the complete infinite, since in the infinite the part equals the whole.

When Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is within each one, he is clearly manifesting it. all Christian mystics understood this.

don't expect someone who has adopted religion as dogma to understand this, or anything else. This type of people is not oriented towards understanding but towards other things, and it does not have to be otherwise. some of them are integrous and have quite intuitive understanding

 

[omar30]

Ask the Sufi Mansur Al-Hallaj he will tell you lol.

[Hojo]

@Romanov because God is a man in the sky. They don't even know where to start. God is me? what does that even mean they think. Im "name" not God. This is a belief that came with them  at the beginning of their creation its not easy to crack. I tried to ask my mom she can't understand she says God is one. Well what does that mean for you then? They are clueless about reality as we all once were .

Edited January 2, 2023 by Hojo

[Bad_anarchist]

On 30/12/2022 at 4:25 AM, Romanov said:

All they do is talk about God. God this, God that. I would think that they would be the most ripe for the non dual understanding compared to atheists. The one man they worship knew he was God aka Jesus. There already is a role model that’s half man half divine. They don’t think that their belief in a transcendent God is asinine but yet they think it’s asinine to consider that they are God. 
 

How do you communicate to these people the nondual understanding without making them feel like they’re going against the Bible?

Jesus never claimed to be god, even though Christians love to say “Jesus is God” .
 

Christians don’t follow  Jesus, if they did they would be reading the Torah because Jesus was a Jew. My boyfriend calls Christians “Dirty Corrupt Jews” lol. they quote Paul and follow his word but they don’t actually give a fuck about Jesus. 
 

You can’t convince a Christian that they are going against the bible. The reason why they get upset is probably because they know deep down they are already doing it and are in denial about it. Christians are extremely conservative unlike Jews who are known to be very liberal. The most prominent anarchists, like Emma Goldman have been Jewish for example. Jews are not nearly as conservative and boring. Christians will condem alcohol left to right, but Jews don’t give a fuck, they party HARD, even the most orthodox ones. You will see Orthodox Jew get blackout drunk and then start praying fanatically. Jews tend to be more liberal when it comes to drugs as well so you will probably have better luck convincing a Jew to take some acid and experience the non dual than a Christian. 

[Razard86]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:13 PM, Moksha said:

 

Edit: @Razard86 Just read your post and realized that you already cited some of these gems 

Lol why you think I like you so much we on the same page!!! 

[Nemra]

@Romanov

Most of them are very biased towards their religion, because they feel comfortable belonging to it.

I have been a christian (not dogmatically following it) for a period of time when I was a kid and I can tell that most of them are mindlessly going to church to just feel that they are some chosen people that are being saved. I feel ashamed when I remember it, but at least I would like to think that I was the only one that was seeking understanding of the world when I was at church, but I grew out of it (going to church) eventually. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Understander

[Leo Gura]

Because all religion is designed for stupid people.

But God is the most intelligent thing.

[Moksha]

On 1/2/2023 at 3:30 AM, vishnusavestheday said:

But I've taken a semi-oppositional stance on this idea above--that the Bible teaches "sinnerism" rather than God-realization.

Many interpret the Bible literally, as if each word was inscribed by the finger of God on the stone tablets which Moses brought down from Mount Sinai. It's like a child learning about life, and unable yet to comprehend the deeper lessons to be learned. I went through a phase of fundamentalist spirituality for a good part of my life. It was sincere, and thankfully despite the indoctrination I still realized God at some level.

There is an interesting book, which I read shortly after leaving my church, called "Stages of Faith" by James Fowler:

Fowler found in his research that the higher stages of faith are increasingly rare, with very few reaching the Universalizing stage.

Jesus understood this, and taught at the level his disciples were capable of comprehending. The teachings were still true, but most of them didn't realize the deeper meaning:

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

- 1 Corinthians 3:2

Edited January 6, 2023 by Moksha