Leo Gura’s false assessment about Muhammad

[How to be wise]

40 minutes ago, shahryar said:

I agree, I’ve never said he was an average nomad he was definitely smart although as you said he didn’t conquer realms you mentioned  himself also conquering them does not make one’s development level higher, you can conquer the world like Genghis khan and still be a stage red person, smartness is not equal  to development

He was a powerful leader for sure. But obviously not spiritual.

I completely disagree with people who say that religions were founded by enlightened beings. There is absolutely no evidence for that. In fact the historical records we do have all contradict this. For example, you see so many spiritual teachers saying that Jesus was an enlightened master. But when you look at the historical evidence we have, they all point to a Jewish apocalyptic preacher, like many others in his day. I also don’t believe that Buddha was enlightened, since there is absolutely no historical evidence of any kind to support that. Historians don’t even know if he existed!

[shahryar]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

He was a powerful leader for sure. But obviously not spiritual.

I completely disagree with people who say that religions were founded by enlightened beings. There is absolutely no evidence for that. In fact the historical records we do have all contradict this. For example, you see so many spiritual teachers saying that Jesus was an enlightened master. But when you look at the historical evidence we have, they all point to a Jewish apocalyptic preacher, like many others in his day. I also don’t believe that Buddha was enlightened, since there is absolutely no historical evidence of any kind to support that. Historians don’t even know if he existed!

You're right but as enlightenment is something that happens within so there is no evidence for anyone's enlightenment, only the enlightened being itself can know if he/she is enlightened or not, to other people whoever says I’m enlightened is just making a claim 

Edited December 25, 2022 by shahryar

[omar30]

@How to be wise

LMAO just shut up bro all you talk about is "historical evidence" which is corrupted anyways.

All the evidence you want exist in your direct experience with the practices and the teachings. if Jesus and Muhammad are not enlightened so no one else is. 

Let historians teach you about spirituality then lol.

The level of ignorance and egoistical bias on this thread is insane

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

You're right but as enlightenment is something that happens within so there is no evidence for anyone's enlightenment, only the enlightened being itself can know if he/she is enlightened or not, to other people whoever says I’m enlightened is just making a claim 

Not necessarily. If we find a piece of document that historians agree comes from the Buddha, and it contains the Buddhist teachings as we know them today, then I’ll believe that he was enlightened. But we have nothing. No documents, no records, no artefacts. Nothing. 

 

11 minutes ago, omar30 said:

@How to be wise

LMAO just shut up bro all you talk about is "historical evidence" which is corrupted anyways.

All the evidence you want exist in your direct experience with the practices and the teachings. if Jesus and Muhammad are not enlightened so no one else is. 

Let historians teach you about spirituality then lol.

The level of ignorance and egoistical bias on this thread is insane

Evidence is the only way to know what’s real and what’s not. Without evidence you get conspiracy theories and false beliefs. 

[Gesundheit2]

10 hours ago, shahryar said:

I agree with you about everyone thinking they believe in the right version according to their biases and there is a spectrum in being a Muslim from fundamentalist absolutists to tolerant post-modern relativists, people are different and have their biases but scripture isn’t, Quran Claims to be absolute truth , people invented more peaceful versions of Islam against its strict verses so they can live with it
anyways I just wanted to correct the false assessment of Muhammad’s character happening frequently in Leo’s videos
I don’t like any Ideological fascist totalitarian system whether its Islam or Iranian government but it’s irrelevant to Muhammad’s character, where I’m from and anything about me does not change who Muhammad was, the point of this thread is addressing Muhammad’s character as he was

I don't think you appreciate how difficult rulership can be. When you're responsible for a family or a group of people, you will have to make tough decisions, even if you don't like those decisions. You're talking about Muhammad as though he loved war and enjoyed killing other people off, even though he was not a warrior himself. A leader needs to look out for the best interests of his people, and in a Red environment, he has to kill some people in order to protect those interests. Put yourself in his shoes. Imagine what it's like to be an Arab leader in the 600s. What would you have done in his place?

[Leo Gura]

I wouldn't say that Muhammad was enlightened. He was genetically spiritually gifted and had mystical visions throughout his long life. He was more like a Teal Swan character. It was not pure Awakening.

Not should you assume that Jesus and the Buddha accessed the same states of consciousness.

Moreover, enlightenment is not God-Realization and all of Buddhism is a just a dream. So keep your whits about you as you explore this terrain.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Leo Gura

[omar30]

7 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Evidence is the only way to know what’s real and what’s not. Without evidence you get conspiracy theories and false beliefs. 

 

7 hours ago, omar30 said:

All the evidence you want exist in your direct experience with the practices and the teachings.

Go explore the teachings of Muhammad and Jesus it's crazy how those spiritual masters who created very rich spiritual paths aren't considered enlightened by guys here who jerk off to porn while taking

5-Meo DMT and say porn hits different on psychedelics lol guys here are hilarious.

How can someone who meditated in cave for more than 40 years not enlightened he invented a complete fucking path and practice to reach enlightenment and still not consider enlightened I am tired of arguing with you guys. Listening to Quran alone can purify you and clean all your chakras.

There are tons of evidence I can list here I am not defending anybody or being dogmatic with religion this all from direct experience that none of are willing to do.

It's actually a stigma for guys here who are like you to approach this powerful path.

[asifarahim]

@shahryar i studied actualized.org and other things for 8 and years and i returned to islam

I am a stage yellow muslim

Even when i was orange and green, i never left islam.i was not practicing it

If u are honest and innocent and study self improvement for 10 years ,u will go back to islam

Look for barelvism. Barelvis defend orginal islam .

After 9/11 everyone moved to atheism . in 2022 people are moving from atheism to agnosticism(new age). Islam survived. Atheism has not.  New age is agnosticism.

 My advice to u is be sincere and honest and study both islam and new age for 10 or 20 or 30 years and u will return to islam 

Islam is perfect

The followers of islam are not

 

[shahryar]

36 minutes ago, asifarahim said:

@shahryar i studied actualized.org and other things for 8 and years and i returned to islam

I am a stage yellow muslim

Even when i was orange and green, i never left islam.i was not practicing it

If u are honest and innocent and study self improvement for 10 years ,u will go back to islam

Look for barelvism. Barelvis defend orginal islam .

After 9/11 everyone moved to atheism . in 2022 people are moving from atheism to agnosticism(new age). Islam survived. Atheism has not.  New age is agnosticism.

 My advice to u is be sincere and honest and study both islam and new age for 10 or 20 or 30 years and u will return to islam 

Islam is perfect

The followers of islam are not

 

I’m one of rare people here who almost consumed all actualized.org content and watched all Leo’s videos, I’ve read the whole Quran 14 years ago, as I said there are useful spiritual practices in Islam such as Salat, Fasting etc. so accessing yellow is not impossible in your path but it will be a glimpse cause to become a tier 2 you must release yourself from all of your beliefs and Islam has lots of belief systems to believe in many of them limiting. yet one can reach yellow and turquoise seeking path of Rumi and others like him but these people and paths as great as they are, are not real Islam written in Quran, if you are a yellow, then you are not a real Muslim as Quran demands, Islam surviving 9/11 is just stubborn dogma not something to be proud of and Islam is not perfect and has many flaws scientifically and ethically. followers of Islam are mostly peaceful but Islam isnt.

Edited December 26, 2022 by shahryar

[asifarahim]

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

I’m one of rare people here who almost consumed all actualized.org content and watched all Leo’s videos, 

@shahryari 

How much time did it take u to do that

 

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

. so accessing yellow is not impossible in your path 

I reached yellow by following self improvement knowledge from actualized.org and from other sources.i reached yellow by purely doing self improvement from other systems  and not from islam.

 

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

 so accessing yellow is not impossible in your path but it will be a glimpse cause to become a tier 2 you must release yourself from all of your beliefs and Islam has lots of belief systems to believe in many of them limiting. 

Allah revealed to prophet muhammad sa do this do that. But he did not reveal the reason behind it. Allah just revealed dont commint adultury, intrest ,. Men should protect and provide and woman should stay on home and do this. Allah did not reveal the reason why. When atheist got hold of europe, they started experimenting with the limitations christianity and islam prohibites. They started doing all the things islam prohibited. And in 2020,wester society is in a complete cluster fuck. They are in a super cluster fuck. But leo is a liberal and will not allow the topics related to that to be discussed here

 

 

Check out rollo tomassi to find out what is wrong with feminism. The redpill pickup artist found out that islamic system for incorporating woman  and men is very good. They are coming closer and closer to islam

 

Check out a guy called daniel haqiqatjou for problems of liberalism

 

Check out a guy called omar zaid for why islam is the truth and christianity and occult are on falsehood. Omar zaid spend all his life searching for truth and towards the end of his life he converted to islamislam

 

 

When i started this journey i was muslim in name only. I thought islam was a scam. I learned a lot from many western people like leo and after 7 or 8 years i realised that islam is the truth

 

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

. yet one can reach yellow and turquoise seeking path of Rumi and others like him but these people and paths as great as they are, are not real Islam written in Quran, 

There are hardcore islamic scholar who are real islamic scholars who wrote greate works to defend maulana rumi and muhiyuddin ibn arabi

Maulana rumi and muhiyuddin ibn arabi are muslims. Greate scholars wrote works defending them. They are not pantheist. They are muslims. Sufism is built from islam.sufis are muslims. 

 

 

1 hour ago, shahryar said:

, if you are a yellow, then you are not a real Muslim as Quran demands, Islam surviving 9/11 is just stubborn dogma not something to be proud of and Islam is not perfect and has many flaws scientifically and ethically. followers of Islam are mostly peaceful but Islam isnt.

Alright fine

Go ahead

Go and learn everythig  For 10 or 20 or 30 years

If u r honest ,then u will come to islam

Allah revealed islam to prophet muhammad sa ,but he did not reveal many reasons why

When western soceity moved away from islamic like values ,they are in chaos now

 

[How to be wise]

7 hours ago, omar30 said:

Listening to Quran alone can purify you and clean all your chakras.

Those blood-thirsty terrorists really have clean chakras don’t they. 

[omar30]

@How to be wise

In case of the terrorists they don't have kundalini awakening they have egoic awakening, their energy awaken in an inverted way all of their chakras are in the grip of their ego so it depends on the intention.

[RendHeaven]

10 hours ago, asifarahim said:

If u are honest and innocent and study self improvement for 10 years ,u will go back to islam

 

Lol no - Infinity contains Islam. Islam does not contain Infinity.

Align wholeheartedly with Infinity - not necessarily Islam.

This should be obvious 

[How to be wise]

@omar30 You should study Islam in the 7th century. Back then, being a Muslim and being a jihadi were synonymous. “Fight those who believe not in Allah and the last day” 9:29, “kill the associators wherever you find them,” 9:5. It wasn’t until the Abbasid rule of 750 that Islam became a civilisation.

[Danioover9000]

   It all depends on the stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing and ego development, states of consciousness and emotions, life experiences, other lines of development in other areas of life, the world views that contain belief systems, value systems, and all ideologies indoctrinated into one's mind by culture and family upbringing, all narratives the mind attaches meaning to during a narrative, ideological, and political warfare. This is also tied to information ecologies of the time that have epistemic and metaphysical implications, information warfare with disinformation and misinformation, simple to complex deception of others and the self. Most of what I list can lean more to an individual scale, but can also scale up to the collective and how that native tribe, warring factions, empires, civilizations, mafias, countries and nations are formed historically, geographically, and are formed by the limitations of geographic/weather and climate conditions/biosphere such as wild life diversity that can be tamable for domestication and animal husbandry/hydrosphere resources in their environment, which can influence economic, technologic, historic, psycho-socio developments. All this the mind can also distort, generalize and forget pieces of information to suit it's own biases and preferences.

@shahryar What it seems to me is you are conflating Spiral Dynamics, which is a modal for human cultural values development, for a modal that also can map for spiritual development. This conflation isn't accurate and is wrong. If you want to use complex modals, you may have to use Ken Wilbur's integral theory, 9 stages of ego development, the big 5 personality traits and Myers Brigg's personality typing modal, both later modals are academic and typological which can offer a more richer explanation of one's character and personality as an ego.

   @Leo Gura and @Carl-Richard, can you explain why a thread that is more about the issues of whether Mohammad is spiritual, mystical or not, is in a sub forum about society, politics, current political events, and governance? 

[Osaid]

It's very easy to criticize survival from thousands of years in the future, when things are much more developed.

Surviving in a beige - red society is an entirely different ball game than surviving in a red - green society.

Even the most conscious people have a physical body maintain, and a physical body is a distinct form, and so that distinct form must take priority over other distinct forms in order to continue existing as a distinct form. Now, imagine if the society you live in and all of its people are stage beige - red, and you must figure out how to survive within that environment. The tactics you use today are not gonna work back then. This is the existential survival bind we are put in. Over the years, it's become easier to survive selflessly thanks to evolutionary advancements. But, of course, survival still happens to a certain degree.

Our version of this today might be factory workers laboring away in order to make our phones. Or, the destructions of trees for our homes. Or, the slaughtering of animals for nutrients. These are the modern versions of "low development" survival activities which are hard to escape from. Of course these survival strategies will look much different in a thousand-year-old society where phones did not even exist.

Anyways, this is all mostly a distraction anyways. Sort the wheat from the chaff.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Osaid

[Jowblob]

I feel bad for people on this forum that are so deluded in the illusion that they have to follow a religion. On higher levels it's all about 'you', religion and most masters is just for lost people in the dream to give them something so they won't go crazy and have something to hold on.

[asifarahim]

@omar30

Who was the god of the pharoah who attacked moses

According to that pharoah who was god

He thought he was what

[Danioover9000]

@Osaid

On 2022-12-27 at 11:25 PM, Osaid said:

It's very easy to criticize survival from thousands of years in the future, when things are much more developed.

Surviving in a beige - red society is an entirely different ball game than surviving in a red - green society.

Even the most conscious people have a physical body maintain, and a physical body is a distinct form, and so that distinct form must take priority over other distinct forms in order to continue existing as a distinct form. Now, imagine if the society you live in and all of its people are stage beige - red, and you must figure out how to survive within that environment. The tactics you use today are not gonna work back then. This is the existential survival bind we are put in. Over the years, it's become easier to survive selflessly thanks to evolutionary advancements. But, of course, survival still happens to a certain degree.

Our version of this today might be factory workers laboring away in order to make our phones. Or, the destructions of trees for our homes. Or, the slaughtering of animals for nutrients. These are the modern versions of "low development" survival activities which are hard to escape from. Of course these survival strategies will look much different in a thousand-year-old society where phones did not even exist.

Anyways, this is all mostly a distraction anyways. Sort the wheat from the chaff.

   I agree, most modern day people have very little understanding, empathy and appreciation of what a stage purple to red society is like thousands of years ago, so many different factors technologically, economically, historically, materialistically, culturally, and psycho-socially speaking we developed farther up the stages, cognitively and morally, states of consciousness in I and we. 

[SourceCodo]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:07 AM, asifarahim said:

@omar30

Who was the god of the pharoah who attacked moses

According to that pharoah who was god

He thought he was what

Wat