X-Mas Family Debate: What is Love?

[integral]

i just had a standard X-MAS debate with my uncle at a family party. What is love? 

He followed the spiritual path for many years and read hundred of books, but he couldn't get the concept that ones ability to love is proportional to ones ability to understand another's perspective. To help him see this i went down the path of if he was born in Hitler shoes, with his genetics and his parents and his culture... life conditions, he would of literally done everything Hitler did and he would be Hitler and that the only different between him and someone else is circumstance. Its the same reason people are Christian or Muslim because you where born in a Muslim family, no other reason. This same concept applies to your ego, the only reason you are who you are is life conditions/circumstance.

Of course this entire concept was rejected and the reason he gave was, "It boils down to choices, I would not make does choices". So i continued with that his ability to make does choices are also part of circumstance, all his values and life experiences allowed him to make them and people like trump and Hitler did not receive the same circumstance. He countered this by giving examples of people who over came there bad circumstances with a positive mindset and willpower. Basically unable to see that yes there circumstances where bad but they still got the right mix of genetics and experiences to be a person who had a positive mindset.

It went on like this in circles for a while. Explaining the reason why he cant love child rapists or "people with no empathy" is because hes thinking as a human and anything that is against a humans survival is not loved. Highly conditional. That humans separate the world into positive and negative based on what benefits it and love only the positive parts. His response to this was "ya that whats love is, its a waist of time loving the rest of them, they have no empathy". So i explained its not about giving to them or sacrificing for them, you can love something and still put it in jail or kill it, because thats the most loving thing to do for them and the whole that you also love.

He went on that the point of life is to end suffering (Buddhism), so if where to love them we would allow them to hurt us and suffer. but of course not... if you open yourself up to loving everything through deep understanding and loving everything the way it is and seeing the beauty in everything the way it is, that is how you end suffering... obviously and to love yourself is to also take basic measures to prevents yourself from being hurt by them. 

To separate your survival needs from your ability to love and do both at the same time is a skill! 

The reason im bringing this up is, i know a few people on the forum can not love the world the way it is and i encourage them to come forward and explain there reasoning. 

Why cant you love the world the way it is?

Edited December 25, 2022 by integral

[Tyler Robinson]

To love is to understand and care. To love is to empathize. 

 

Thank you for the topic and Merry Christmas to you and your family Fishy. 

 

 

[Proserpina]

@Tyler Robinson How did you know his name is Fishy?

[RobertZ]

He followed the spiritual path for many years. With respect, it sound like he has a different perspective than you—or at least a different emphasis. I hate to raise a cliche, but is it possible that this difference of perspective became a “Christmas debate” because he is a family member? I can’t wade into that territory, but it seems to me pretty cool that your family would bother debating an issue—as opposed to simply fighting or pacifying one another. 

Seems to me like you are characterizing the debate as a stage blue versus stage yellow—moral choice versus understanding. This brings to my mind the fact that yellow is built on healthy blue developed. There are probably logical reasons why your uncle is emphasizes, ‘it boils down to choice.’ Maybe a debate is the best forum to explore his perspective. Personally, I’m a fan of small talk at family gatherings. If people want to reach out to me and discuss topics further, that’s fine. I find parties—like Christmas family parties—a better chance to just make people feel welcome. But it’s pretty cool that you discussed some deeper topics .

Merry Christmas. 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by RobertZ

[Leo Gura]

Ah, yeah.... nothing like a good ol rape-is-love Xmas dinner table debate.

[michaelcycle00]

“You can love something and still put it in jail or kill it” uhh, I don’t think you get it either.

Don’t judge your uncle, you’re telling him about love while referring to acceptance, 2 different things.

 You can’t love something and want to get rid of it, that’s not how it works in the relative. Some of you really fool yourselves and it’s hilarious because it proves what I already knew. You can only ACCEPT what is, and you can call it love if it helps you sleep at night, but you’ll never let a rapist fuck your child, or a serial killer murder you, or encourage Hitler to kill a couple thousand more Jews. Just drop that stupidity already… 

Edited December 25, 2022 by michaelcycle00

[A_v_E]

I tried directly instead with there is no one and there is no self to behold anything.

All distinctions and all nuances are hallucinated.

Then they all laugh and think I m the crazy one.

But there is no one to be crazy or to be laughed about here

 

[Nilsi]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ah, yeah.... nothing like a good ol rape-is-love Xmas dinner table debate.

Ikr

[Someone here]

Love is sexual energy  . 

[integral]

10 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

To love is to understand and care. To love is to empathize. 

Thank you for the topic and Merry Christmas to you and your family Fishy. 

10 hours ago, Proserpina said:

@Tyler Robinson How did you know his name is Fishy?

 Swimming away...

Edited December 25, 2022 by integral

[integral]

1. Philia — Affectionate Love

Philia is love without romantic attraction and occurs between friends or family members. It occurs when both people share the same values and respect each other — it’s commonly referred to as “brotherly love.”

Love Catalyst: The mind

Your mind articulates which friends are on the same wavelength as you and who you can trust.

How to Show Philia:

Engage in deep conversation with a friend.

Be open and trustworthy.

Be supportive in hard times.

Bonus: Gift a gratitude card to a friend.

2. Pragma — Enduring Love

Pragma is a unique bonded love that matures over many years. It’s an everlasting love between a couple that chooses to put equal effort into their relationship. Commitment and dedication are required to reach “Pragma.” Instead of “falling in love,” you are “standing in love” with the partner you want by your side indefinitely.

Love Catalyst: Etheric (Subconscious)

The subconscious drives partners towards each other. This feeling comes unknowingly and feels purposeful.

How to Show Pragma:

Continue to strengthen the bond of long-term relationships.

Seek and show effort with your partner.

Choose to work with your partner forever.

Bonus: Gift a love coupon booklet.

3. Storge — Familiar Love

Storge is a naturally occurring love rooted in parents and children, as well as best friends. It’s an infinite love built upon acceptance and deep emotional connection. This love comes easily and immediately in parent and child relationships.

Love Catalyst: Causal (Memories)

Your memories encourage long-lasting bonds with another individual. As you create more memories, the value of your relationship increases.

How to Show Storge:

Sacrifice your time, self or personal pleasures.

Quickly forgive harmful actions.

Share memorable and impactful moments.

Bonus: Show how much you care with love words.

4. Eros — Romantic Love

Eros is a primal love that comes as a natural instinct for most people. It’s a passionate love displayed through physical affection. These romantic behaviors include, but are not limited to, kissing, hugging and holding hands. This love is a desire for another person’s physical body.

Love Catalyst: Physical body (Hormones)

Your hormones awaken a fire in your body and must be satiated with romantic actions from an admired partner.

How to Show Eros:

Admiring someone’s physical body.

Physical touch, such as hugging and kissing.

Romantic affection.

Bonus: Steal from our romance ideas.

5. Ludus — Playful Love

Ludus is a child-like and flirtatious love commonly found in the beginning stages of a relationship (a.k.a. the honeymoon stage). This type of love consists of teasing, playful motives and laughter between two people. Although common in young couples, older couples who strive for this love find a more rewarding relationship.

Love Catalyst: Astral (Emotion)

Your emotions allow you to feel giddy, excited, interested and involved with another person.

How to Show Ludus:

Flirt and engage in whimsical conversation.

Spend time together to laugh and have fun.

Exemplify childlike behavior together.

Bonus: Gift a bouquet of roses.

6. Mania — Obsessive Love

Mania is an obsessive love towards a partner. It leads to unwanted jealousy or possessiveness — known as codependency. Most cases of obsessive love are found in couples with an imbalance of love towards each other. An imbalance of Eros and Ludus is the main cause of Mania. With healthy levels of playful and romantic love, the harm of obsessive love can be avoided.

Love Catalyst: Survival instinct

Survival instinct drives a person to desperately need their partner in order to find a sense of self-value.

How to Avoid Mania:

Recognize obsessive or possessive behavior before acting upon it.

Focus on yourself more versus another person.

Put trust into your relationships.

7. Philautia — Self Love

Philautia is a healthy form of love where you recognize your self-worth and don’t ignore your personal needs. Self-love begins with acknowledging your responsibility for your well-being. It’s challenging to exemplify the outbound types of love because you can’t offer what you don’t have.

Love Catalyst: Soul

Your soul allows you to reflect on your necessary needs and physical, emotional and mental health.

How to Show Philautia:

Create an environment that nurtures your well-being.

Take care of yourself like a parent would care for a child.

Spend time around people who support you.

Bonus: Use flowers to boost your mood.

8. Agape — Selfless Love

Agape is the highest level of love to offer. It’s given without any expectations of receiving anything in return. Offering Agape is a decision to spread love in any circumstances — including destructive situations. Agape is not a physical act, it’s a feeling, but acts of self-love can elicit Agape since self-monitoring leads to results.

Love Catalyst: Spirit

Your spirit creates purpose bigger than yourself. It motivates you to pass kindness on to others.

How to Show Agape:

Dedicate your life to improving the lives of others.

Stay conscious of your actions for the good of humankind.

Offer your time and charity to someone in need.

Bonus: Start a random acts of kindness calendar.

Edited December 25, 2022 by integral

[Tyler Robinson]

@integral can I directly quote and copy your posts in my journal. Taking your permission before doing it. I hope you don't mind. 

[integral]

8 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

@integral can I directly quote and copy your posts in my journal. Taking your permission before doing it. I hope you don't mind. 

OF COURSE ?️?️