Can enlightenment vary in profoundness?

[Buddha killa]

What's up, folks!

Lately, my mind has been occupied with a thought that is 'does enlightenment come in different levels?'

You see, after having read the Enlightenment, the damnedest thing by Jed McKenna (a book Leo brought up in one of his podcasts), my notion of an enlightenment experience used to be as follows: it's the same for everyone having it; it's the encounter of absolute truth which, independently of a person, always manifests itself in the same way. 

Later, though, I've heard from Leo so many times that he had managed to reach a so-called 'new, even more profound state of awakening'. This would imply that enlightenment is not constant and each manifestation has a different depth to it, which, as far as I understand it, contradicts the McKenna's description of enlightenment.

So, Leo. Is it AN Enlightenment, or THE Enlightenment?

What thoughts do you, guys, have of it?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Buddha killa
Correcting the grammar

[Nilsi]

Every iteration of EA's FIFA is the same game at its core, yet compare FIFA 99 to FIFA 23.

[vladorion]

Awakening and enlightenment are different things.

Awakening is like an opening, a hole in the wall through which some sunlight comes through. A hole can be big or small. And there can be many holes.

Enlightenment is like completely tearing down the walls.

If one still has some egoic tendencies, that's not enlightenment.

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Buddha killa said:

my notion of an enlightenment experience used to be as follows: it's the same for everyone having it; it's the encounter of absolute truth which, independently of a person, always manifests itself in the same way. 

It’s the same for everyone in the sense that you discover your true nature. 

[RickyFitts]

Just for future reference (but mostly because I'm an anal nutbag), the word is profundity, not profoundness.

Many apologies for my pedantry - it's a sickness, really.

[BipolarGrowth]

35 minutes ago, RickyFitts said:

Just for future reference (but mostly because I'm an anal nutbag), the word is profundity, not profoundness.

Many apologies for my pedantry - it's a sickness, really.

Wouldn’t it be more apt to change - to —? Asking for a friend. 

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Every iteration of EA's FIFA is the same game at its core, yet compare FIFA 99 to FIFA 23.

This!! Well done Nilsi nice analogy!!! Its all about relativity. There are no levels, but in relation to the present moment, there are levels.

[RickyFitts]

9 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Wouldn’t it be more apt to change - to —? Asking for a friend. 

???

[Ramu]

@Buddha killa I think you answered  your own question while asking it.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Ramu

[Moksha]

Define enlightenment. Leo has had deeper levels of awakening, but has also said he is not enlightened. The same is true for me. I see enlightenment as the permanent state of lucidity, where even within the dream Self-awareness is never distracted by the phenomenal world.

It is said that before entering the sea
a river trembles with fear.
She looks back at the path she has traveled,
from the peaks of the mountains,
the long winding road crossing forests and villages.
And in front of her,
she sees an ocean so vast,
that to enter
there seems nothing more than to disappear forever.
But there is no other way.
The river can not go back.
Nobody can go back.
To go back is impossible in existence.
The river needs to take the risk
of entering the ocean
because only then will fear disappear,
because that’s where the river will know
it’s not about disappearing into the ocean,
but of becoming the ocean.

- Khalil Gibran

[axiom]

@Buddha killa Leo is exploring the infinite potential of the dream. This is not enlightenment.

Enlightenment is more meta than this, once and done.

Edited December 27, 2022 by axiom

[WelcometoReality]

On 2022-12-24 at 10:44 PM, Buddha killa said:

Later, though, I've heard from Leo so many times that he had managed to reach a so-called 'new, even more profound state of awakening'. This would imply that enlightenment is not constant and each manifestation has a different depth to it, which, as far as I understand it, contradicts the McKenna's description of enlightenment.

@Buddha killa It's a continuum and depending on what definition of "enlightenment" you use it will be on different places on that continuum. Also, awakening doesn't have to be the same as enlightenment. It can mean the same thing depending who you ask but it can also mean different places on the continuum. 

I would define awakening as a glimpse or the entry level on the continuum and enlightenment as more permanent or irreversible.

[Breakingthewall]

Enlightenment is when you realize what you really are, and you not only realize it but you become it: the infinite. it is the total rupture of all limits. full glory. 

To the question of whether there are levels of depth, I would say yes and no. not because if you become infinite, that's it. Yes, because there is a lot to understand about what this means, about what the infinite is, about what this experience is. once you're limited again it's hard to really remember what it's like to be infinite, though something remains. your finite cohesion is weakening.