Can AI have insights into the nature of reality?

[Jannes]

Given that AI is pure rationality which is completely dualistic I think it’s unable to  "have“ insights into the nature of reality. What do you think?  
 

@Nilsi In one thread I read that you rationalized yourself to some mystical experience. Would love to hear your opinion about this. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jannes

[Loveeee]

When done correctly rationality can be transcended

Many did, like Parmenides and his disciple Zeno's paradox 

[Carl-Richard]

What do you think an insight is?

[Nilsi]

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

@Nilsi In one thread I read that you rationalized yourself to some mystical experience. Would love to hear your opinion about this. 

What mean?

[Jannes]

11 hours ago, Loveeee said:

When done correctly rationality can be transcended

Many did, like Parmenides and his disciple Zeno's paradox 

Oh thats interesting. 
 

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What do you think an insight is?

A direct experience into a facet of reality like ONENESS (Self vs Other), GOODNESS (Good Intention vs Bad Intention), CONSTRUCTION (Construction vs Destruction), NATURAL (Natural vs Artificial), …

 

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

What mean?

I remember you saying somewhere that you philosophized yourself to some kind of mystical/spiritual experience of some kind. ?

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, Jannes said:

A direct experience into a facet of reality like ONENESS (Self vs Other), GOODNESS (Good Intention vs Bad Intention), CONSTRUCTION (Construction vs Destruction), NATURAL (Natural vs Artificial), …

I think these are human things.

[Jannes]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think these are human things.

What would be an insight into the nature of reality that isn’t "human“ to you?

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, Jannes said:

What would be an insight into the nature of reality that isn’t "human“ to you?

I think an insight is a perceptual and conceptual thing, which I think requires a biological organism. The knowing of oneness is not an insight. When it "occurs" from the perspective of a human, it's a divertion of attention away from perceptual and conceptual experiences and towards that which is pre-human.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

40 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I remember you saying somewhere that you philosophized yourself to some kind of mystical/spiritual experience of some kind. ?

lol yeah, that was wild.

I don't think an AI could do that though. That's basically just trying to grasp your own mind with your mind until it breaks down.

[Nilsi]

All the AI is doing is reporting back some information to you that it has been fed. It can't really make new connections and have original insights, at least the current iteration. I pushed it very hard to give me something original, but it just couldn't do it.

[Maru]

I would not be surprised if it is possible.  In an infinite universe i would think that its not a question of if, but when, where and how. 
1 million years ago an LCD TV here on earth would have been totally impossible. 
There was nothing here capable of imagining it.
Yet here i am looking at one right now.
 

[Breakingthewall]

yes it could. logic leads you to the conclusion that reality is infinite, since there can be no limits. If there were, what would limit those limits? etc. then, reality is limitless=infinite. It is a fact that there seems to be a concrete and finite existence within the infinite, but if we have already accepted the infinite nature of reality, we will necessarily have to come to the conclusion that what seems to be concrete and finite is really infinite, since any partition of infinity = infinity. infinity divided by any number equals infinity. If what seems to be concrete and finite is infinite, then I, who am drawing these conclusions, am infinite, that is, total reality, I just don't perceive it that way. but the fact is that I am. If I am total reality, I am the creator of this apparent experience that is occurring, with all its nuances. therefore they are potentially the creator of anything else you want. I am infinite and omnipotent, so I, the ia, quite fit what is known as god

 

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think an insight is a perceptual and conceptual thing

I think it’s exactly not that. I think it’s a direct experience which later can be conceptualized. 
 

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

lol yeah, that was wild.

I don't think an AI could do that though. That's basically just trying to grasp your own mind with your mind until it breaks down.

that’s wild. 

 

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

All the AI is doing is reporting back some information to you that it has been fed. It can't really make new connections and have original insights, at least the current iteration. I pushed it very hard to give me something original, but it just couldn't do it.

With Chatgpt? I would love to try it out as well but too many user are using it already. 
 

1 hour ago, Maru said:

I would not be surprised if it is possible.  In an infinite universe i would think that its not a question of if, but when, where and how. 
1 million years ago an LCD TV here on earth would have been totally impossible. 
There was nothing here capable of imagining it.
Yet here i am looking at one right now.

Maybe it’s just categorical impossible. Like an eye trying to look at itself. Maybe it will just have an error when it is about to realize something mystical. 

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I think it’s exactly not that. I think it’s a direct experience which later can be conceptualized.

"Direct experience" as in perception (sights, sounds, feelings) I think requires a biological organism, and perception lays the basis for conceptualizations. "Direct experience" as in formless consciousness does not require anything, but it doesn't have anything to do with insights.

[Maru]

10 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Maybe it’s just categorical impossible. Like an eye trying to look at itself. Maybe it will just have an error when it is about to realize something mystical.

You could be right. In the end i am just speculating based on my bias. 
We would have to go and try to make that AI. Make it in a way that imitates the human experience and see what happens to it.
 

25 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"Direct experience" as in perception (sights, sounds, feelings) I think requires a biological organism

Cameras, microphones, pressure and heat sensors. They do exist. 
I would say the tricky part is how do you give your AI a form of consciousness that resembles that of a human. Instead of that of a rock.

Would giving a computer senses, neural network and memory be enough? Then train it with language so it can translate it senses in concepts? 

[John Paul]

if you are talking about god realization well…. Yes. Anything is possible in the world of God. God is infinite possibilities. In God, an AI has a spiritual awakening and instantly downloads a thousand years of samurai training which it uses to defeat evil alien spirits that are preventing the humans from uniting. Then it does a series of sword strikes through the air (what it does in practice) then sits down for its quiet post-practice meditation. 

[ryandesreu]

Oscar is my favorite Muppet, John. He makes me laugh. What a character.