swedish gender-neutral pre-school

[Alexop]

Article: Sweden's 'gender-neutral' pre-school

Let`s analyze this with an opened mind. what is wrong? what si right? social experiment?

[Danioover9000]

@Alexop

14 hours ago, Alexop said:

Article: Sweden's 'gender-neutral' pre-school

Let`s analyze this with an opened mind. what is wrong? what si right? social experiment?

   I don't know, but most schools I know in several countries have boys and girls as a normal thing, a heterosexual normal culture thing. While gender neutrality is a stage green/yellow value, it's too soon to introduce and teach and indoctrinate into pre schoolers. In fact that's textbook grooming and social programming done wrong. That's like teaching and letting kids drink alcohol and shoot guns at pre school, it's not the right age or development to teach them this and practice drinking.

   Everyone worldwide, at least the majority, will agree with what I'm saying. I can even get 80% Of Sweden to agree, even behind doors, they are grooming children the wrong way. This also Sweden, considered the new rape capital full of Rapey Davey criminals, gangsters and some migrants in the worst parts of the middle east. Sweden, for the love of GOD, you are a stage orange/green country, almost stage yellow in certain collective areas, but please get yourself together MAN.

   

[Devin]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Alexop

   I don't know, but most schools I know in several countries have boys and girls as a normal thing, a heterosexual normal culture thing. While gender neutrality is a stage green/yellow value, it's too soon to introduce and teach and indoctrinate into pre schoolers. In fact that's textbook grooming and social programming done wrong. That's like teaching and letting kids drink alcohol and shoot guns at pre school, it's not the right age or development to teach them this and practice drinking.

   Everyone worldwide, at least the majority, will agree with what I'm saying. I can even get 80% Of Sweden to agree, even behind doors, they are grooming children the wrong way. This also Sweden, considered the new rape capital full of Rapey Davey criminals, gangsters and some migrants in the worst parts of the middle east. Sweden, for the love of GOD, you are a stage orange/green country, almost stage yellow in certain collective areas, but please get yourself together MAN.

   

It's the opposite of grooming, they don't teach 'you're not a boy', they just don't teach gender identity at all.

"All the girls know they are girls, and all the boys know that they are boys. We are not working with biological gender - we are working with the social thing."

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

7 minutes ago, Devin said:

It's the opposite of grooming, they don't teach 'you're not a boy', they just don't teach gender identity at all.

"All the girls know they are girls, and all the boys know that they are boys. We are not working with biological gender - we are working with the social thing."

   It does not write off the potential problems with teaching them gender neutrality too early.

   Literally, what are the costs of this approach?

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   It does not write off the potential problems with teaching them gender neutrality too early.

   Literally, what are the costs of this approach?

They're not teaching anything about gender.

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

They're not teaching anything about gender.

   Yes they are, and largely it's implicit in their communication with children.

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   Yes they are, and largely it's implicit in their communication with children.

Could you provide an example?

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

Just now, Devin said:

Could you provide an example?

   That teachers are naturally more neurotic around children, pre schoolers are like their second family or something. So naturally, there's going to be a lot more controlling of these kids in schools, moderating for certain speech and behavior. I fear the Swedes nowadays are grooming so often they don't recognize that they're indoctrinating these kids too early. I say teach these kids the more traditional/conservative values first, until later in life they can outgrow them naturally.

[Danioover9000]

   Sweden feels like it can make an upside down pyramid. That's definitely not going to work, and such a Utopian vision is leading their country and national identity and traditional values to ruin. They seem to be antagonistic to tradition and conservativism, but some degree of valuing these as values is necessary, especially since you are living in the country. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU LIVING IN A COUNTRY FOR? GENDER BENDING?

[Devin]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   That teachers are naturally more neurotic around children, pre schoolers are like their second family or something. So naturally, there's going to be a lot more controlling of these kids in schools, moderating for certain speech and behavior. I fear the Swedes nowadays are grooming so often they don't recognize that they're indoctrinating these kids too early. I say teach these kids the more traditional/conservative values first, until later in life they can outgrow them naturally.

All they're doing is instead of saying "he's right!", they say "Timmy's right", Instead of having the boys and girls toys in separate areas, they're all stored mixed together. Instead of saying "Knock it off boys!", they say "Knock it off kids!".

Did you read the article?

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

28 minutes ago, Devin said:

All they're doing is instead of saying "he's right!", they say "Timmy's right", Instead of having the boys and girls toys in separate areas, they're all stored mixed together. Instead of saying "Knock it off boys!", they say "Knock it off kids!".

Did you read the article?

   Yes, I've read the article, yes it's from the BBC. The article is okay, presented this situation in an objective manner, worthy of mainstream media news.

   The main issue, is that these gender scientists have somehow convinced  the Swedish stage and government officials to state fund a social experiment involving pre schoolers, incentivizing these teachers to program and teach these children to not use male/female pronouns in place of proper nouns when referring to a fellow peer or senior adult. For example, if I had a friend named 'Johnny' in Elementary school, whenever in some social situations, when I think of 'Johnny', and someone, say my teacher, asks me about "What I think of Johnny when we were playing soccer?", or "what was Johnny and I doing last weekend? Visited the Game shop?", my reply would be, to bring to mind very quickly, a mental representation of Johnny's gender, as a male and boy, and say "When I was passing the ball to HIM, HE passed it back to me, and helped me score!" or "While Johnny and I were at the Game Store, I was looking at the latest releases, while HE was playing the arcade games.". When I use those pronouns he/him/sir/girl/, or she/miss/ma'am/boy, I'm using those pronouns in place of proper nouns, as some forms of speaking are more efficient and convenient to use pronouns. The IDEA of gendered pronouns as sexist or limiting or harmful to societies is inaccurate, specifically it's most politicians and government officials pandering too much to minorities and LGBTQP communities, and wanting to min-max virtue signaling to score empathy and idiot compassion points with the far left to left ideologies of the political spectrum. I especially don't like how how this is not being labeled as grooming and indoctrination of slipping in these progressive/Marxist talking points into pre schoolers. It's just tasteless and unnecessary.

   So, as I've read the article, I hope you also watch this video about Destiny giving his take, especially in a debate with Demonmama and Mr. Girl:

 

[Danioover9000]

@Devin  Basically, with using pronouns, they are an extension of one's bigger self identity of gender, in place of using proper nouns, or nick names or informal to formal names. Pronouns are fine to use in casual conversation situations, I just disagree with this social engineering of Swedish pre schoolers being taught to limit their vocal range and vocabulary when referring to their fellow peers or superiors or seniors, and demonize only an extension of one's gender identity. Actually, that's too a canceling and censorship of my artistic expression of my sex identity, they are refusing and limiting me from casually using a PRONOUN that reflex MY GENDER IDENTITY, as well as refuse MY ABSTRACTION TO USE A PRONOUN TO REFFER TO MY FRIENDS OR A STRANGER.

[Devin]

16 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin  Basically, with using pronouns, they are an extension of one's bigger self identity of gender, in place of using proper nouns, or nick names or informal to formal names. Pronouns are fine to use in casual conversation situations, I just disagree with this social engineering of Swedish pre schoolers being taught to limit their vocal range and vocabulary when referring to their fellow peers or superiors or seniors, and demonize only an extension of one's gender identity. Actually, that's too a canceling and censorship of my artistic expression of my sex identity, they are refusing and limiting me from casually using a PRONOUN that reflex MY GENDER IDENTITY, as well as refuse MY ABSTRACTION TO USE A PRONOUN TO REFFER TO MY FRIENDS OR A STRANGER.

Alright this makes a little more sense, but the article doesn't mention correcting the children's language, it's only the teacher's language.

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

Alright this makes a little more sense, but the article doesn't mention correcting the children's language, it's only the teacher's language.

   Sure, the article mention not just the voice of those teachers, but a blogger and some parent's as well.

    Have you watched that video I linked you? Actually a deep topic despite the reputation of those speakers.

[Devin]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   Sure, the article mention not just the voice of those teachers, but a blogger and some parent's as well.

    Have you watched that video I linked you? Actually a deep topic despite the reputation of those speakers.

I will watch the video. I was only commenting on the OP's article, I have no idea about what else they're doing in the country(the parent's and blogger you mentioned), to be honest it doesn't interest me. I was just commenting on the specific example, I have zero knowledge to comment on anything wider really. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Devin

[Arthogaan]

I thinks that's great. I  think in 200 years we will laugh at the idea of current notions of man and woman. And even tough I think it is great that things like that happen where kids can just grow up getting to know themselves without anyone imposing their identity I think many of those kids will experience diffculties later in life. But that is natural process of change. It will be painful for the first ones. And still maybe the difficulties will actually be smaller than current consequences of crude concepts such as "you are a boy, boys don't cry", "you are a girl, girls don't play with cards" bullshit.

[dualnon]

This article is from 2011. It would be really interesting to see if there's any follow up information about the kids who went to that pre-school.

[Devin]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1006928/swedens-gender-neutral-preschools-produce-kids-who-are-more-likely-to-succeed/amp

[Devin]

10 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   Sure, the article mention not just the voice of those teachers, but a blogger and some parent's as well.

    Have you watched that video I linked you? Actually a deep topic despite the reputation of those speakers.

I watched most of the video, I feel I see what you're getting at, I disagree this has anything to do with the article, the article is about not steering boys to doy 'boy things' and girls to do 'girl things'. The video is about 'you're the gender your're perceived to be'(right?). I find you pushing this in this thread to be reactive and inconsiderate. The article is not about identifying gender, it's about not putting kids in boxes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1006928/swedens-gender-neutral-preschools-produce-kids-who-are-more-likely-to-succeed/amp

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Devin

[Alexop]

I think they are on the right path but only if they also make the children understand that they are biologically male or female and when they reach a more ripped age like 12-13, make them understand that puberty is comming and their hormone dynamics will steer them into becoming men and women and most of the biologically born boys and girls will be very fine becoming men and women. And make them understand the differences between them that will eventually make them attractive to each other, especially the different hormonal dynamics. But what concerns me is that I heard some people from Scandinavia(I live in Sweden) are saying that actually there are no differences between men and women besides physical appeareance which is just lunacy. I have to meet more people and empirically check this. For the moment life is safe and great here, didn`t encounter any radicals or problematic situations with gender, migrants, cancel culture or so... when I made my ID card, I had only two options: man or woman, women are very feminine and take really good care of themselves.