Nothing against lgbtq+ community but..

[Linda22]

What do you guys think about it?

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Linda22

[Jannes]

It’s a difficult topic. Basically there are legit people who want to physically change their gender and the best way to do it is at a young age. BUT kids at a young age just aren’t really mature enough to do these kinds of decisions.
 

It’s also a question of is the kid just interested in acting more like the opposite gender but feels like it can’t because of what is expected from a boy or a girl or does the kid actually want to change its physical body. 
 

I am no expert in that field but I lean more towards the conservative side. The surgery and medications aren’t healthy, that’s just a fact and if there is a way to make people happy in their biological body that should be explored. 
 

I feel like it is easier for people to accept trans people then to accept femboys/tomboys because in the first case it actually agrees that the physical body dictates certain behaviour so it’s actually less radical then the second case. 

[Linda22]

@Jannes This kid is too young for this. I feel like his father forces him to become a girl. Maybe I am wrong but I think so because at this age I didn’t know much about literally anything even though I wasn’t a stupid kid. If he wants to be a girl he will become without changing the gender at such a young age. Parents should think about their children’s mental health more. I am a girl who didn’t like dolls and preferred playing with cars and motorcycles but people call me softie now:) I also didn’t like dresses.

thanks to my parents they didn’t transform me into a boy because of that.

We should give children time to decide what’s better for them. It’s not a small decision but if they really want to change their gender it’s their choice which they can make after hitting puberty.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Linda22

[Roy]

I'll just be honest - I think it's degenerate, and a form of child abuse in the worst cases. I highly doubt these children, and even teenagers are making proper informed decisions that will result in them reaching a healthier, and more authentic version of themselves. They are confused (not their fault) and have no life experience, references, or knowledge of what they are tinkering with, and how fundamental it is. They are blank slates to be victimized by whatever their parents want to influence them with, and sponges of our current recklessly progressive culture. I view it similarly in parallel to religion, 90%+ of people end up with their religious beliefs from hereditary adoption. VERY few people adopt things through their own independent inquiry.

Kids ought not be concerned with something as high stakes as how they want to identify (as if they even know what that means), they should be playing in sandboxes and mud, and capture the flag with their friends. I think 20 years from now we will look back on this time wondering, "what the fuck were we thinking?" as a new generation of disoriented adults enters this hard world and struggles to be productive, ironically having a harder time finding their place then they otherwise would have.

Hopefully the world is more accepting in the future, as I don't think anybody deserves to suffer for choices that weren't even made for them, or by them in a sense. I also hope the ones that do end up radically changing themselves did it from a place of autonomy, at an age where they had a healthy intuition of what was best for them. There is nothing wrong with being trans or gay, or non-binary etc., it should just come from a more natural place by adults ready to understand what they are doing.

It's a difficult subject for sure. I'm more of the hands off approach, let kids be kids. You can do this without swinging from enforcing toxic gender norms, to resentful challenges of those norms with playing God via surgery.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Roy

[Tyler Robinson]

When parents treat children like toys. 

[Ulax]

@Linda22 I'm more suspect of the parents using their kid to front a yt channel

[Eyowey]

I think nobody want to cut their balls or tits off unless they were manipulated to do it. Emphasis on nobody. There has to be organizations behind this that want to harvest those body parts. Or they want the consequence of those body parts being removed. Lower birth rates and docile men.

[zurew]

This problem is not easy ,because the suicide rate is incredibly high among trans people, and if you have gender dysphoria and you go through your puberty there will be irreversible changes to your body and then those people will need to live the rest of their life hating themselves and being uncomfortable with themselves - which will lead a lot of them to commit suicide. The statistics and the current data on this shows that surgery is a very effective way to make these people feel much better and to not commit suicide. 

No other method have been demonstrated or suggested that would be nearly as effective as surgeries.

[Linda22]

@Roy Absolutely agree with you. I also watched one video where his dad said that he wasn’t feeling comfortable in his body from the young age but was ashamed to be honest with parents because his parents were conservatives. It’s terrible that he tries to make his dream come true through his child.

[Linda22]

@Ulax yes, me too but parents say they don’t do this for fame, that it was “her” choice to transform into a girl.

[Linda22]

@zurew But what if this kid changes mind in future? I don’t understand how it’s justified but okay, it’s your opinion but I wouldn’t do this to my child. I would wait until puberty. Listen to Jordan Peterson, he is a conservative but a great psychologist. Suicide rate is high already because many transgenders have had surgery and then they wanted to come back in their old body. It happens when you don’t have enough patience(I know it’s difficult) to reach the age when you actually can see more clearly who you are and what you want. There must be a certain age. 8 year old kids shouldn’t go through this. I think he is influenced by his father who wanted to change his gender when he was a child.

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

But what if this kid changes mind in future?

From the data Ive seen, the people who regret it are much less than people who commit suicide because of not getting surgery. More research needs to be done, but we have to recognise what the data suggests right now. So the real question is what if your kid kill him/herself in the future, because of not getting surgery before going through puberty?

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

I don’t understand how it’s justified but okay,

Its justified, because you can significantly lower the likelyhood, that  your kid will kill him/herself in the future, becasue of this problem.

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

There must be a certain age

Before going through puberty, I don't know the exact age, but around 11-12.

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

Suicide rate is high already because many transgenders have had surgery and then they wanted to come back in their old body.

The numbers I have seen on that is just incredibly low compared to trans people who couldn't get surgery in time and attempted suicide. Look up the studies on this matter , the studies I have seen on this issue all suggests that surgery is the most effective method when it comes to lowering suicide rates.

2 hours ago, Linda22 said:

to reach the age when you actually can see more clearly who you are and what you want.

The problem is that you can't wait until adulthood, because as I said,when  your body goes through puberty, it changes in ways that can't be changed afterwards, and then these people won't have a chance to have a decision, beacuse their life is already set in a way where it cannot be changed.

2 hours ago, Linda22 said:

 I think he is influenced by his father who wanted to change his gender when he was a child.

These surgeries don't happen easily. A psychiatrist or a psychologist first find out if the child really wants to do it, and after a long trial if the doctor agrees to it, then the kid can have a surgery.

 

 

[Linda22]

@zurew I have gay and bisexual friends and I support them but I don’t support this no matter what. I feel like it has become a trend for some to change their child’s identity when he/she is just 5-10 years old. This is not the first, second or third time I see it. If it continues like that our future generations will not care about anything except thinking what gender they are all their life

[Linda22]

If someone is suicidal because of that, I get it but I can’t believe 8 years old can get suicidal because she/he can’t change the identity.

[Linda22]

There are so much to do in life. I am not saying I’m doing more than others but it’s so dumb that many parents try to confuse their children when they are still a kid instead of helping them to grow up in a healthy environment with good mental health and goals. You shouldn’t  force your child anything, neither having life goals nor becoming transgender but I see his parents force him. Especially his dad who doesn’t feel comfortable enough in his body.

 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

I feel like it has become a trend for some to change their child’s identity when he/she is just 5-10 years old.

Thats what maybe some people tell you, but if you look up the numbers thats not the case at all. Some conservative people blow up these numbers enormously - just if we are talking about hormone blockers just that number alone is much much lower than what people expect.

 

1 hour ago, Linda22 said:

but I don’t support this no matter what

Be careful of holding positions dogmatically and never changing your position even if the outcome of holding it dogmatically can result in much worse outcomes. We should be able to change our views if given enough convincing evidence.

 

 

 

[Linda22]

@zurew ok. I understand your point but we should both have our own opinion???

Edited December 22, 2022 by Linda22

[ThermalTide]

I think the issues presented here are more of a product of narcissistic parents than a result of anything truly lgbtq related. This is something I personally have struggled with; the weirdness coming out of this community in the last few years has become illogical and divisive. I have no problem with adults having any consenting sexual relations and experiences they desire, and I also believe that some people are born with a mental condition that is alleviated by transitioning into the opposite sex. I do not, however, stand behind relaying this kind of thing to children. It's fine to tell children a sanitized version of things, but its creepy to think that kids really give a shit about that kind of stuff to begin with. They are innocent, and therefore I think its cruel to be feeding them such nuanced, adult topics. I am a girl and I've always liked masculine things (cars, heavy music, mens clothing), and I know that if I was a child right now in this political climate, I would be under the impression that I am needing to undergo surgery to become who I "truly" am- in reality a child is not "truly" themselves at all; they are still developing and learning, creating even, who they are. 

 

It's parents seeped into social media culture and obsessed with being a "good" person to stroke their own ego who are pushing these things on children, and that's why I think this is a result of much deeper issues than simply gay and trans people exist. 

[Jannes]

@zurew good points!

One thing I wonder about though is that if some people would be fine with being a "femboy“/"tomboy“ instead of actually changing their gender but changing their gender works better for cultivating qualities of the other gender right now maybe in the next decade "femboys“/"tomboys“ are fully accepted in society and the surgery didn’t need to happen. 
Sorry if my sentence is hard to follow, I am tired.  

 

@Linda22 I think there are some parents that will screw up their child no matter what. I get your point that maybe you shouldn’t give people the option to do such dramatic things to their child because there will be some that will abuse it to feed their narcissism or whatever. But on average I think those parents are the vast minority and as zurew said, it has to be accepted by a doctor. (yes the parents can manipulate their child but this makes it a whole lot harder and therefore the cases a lot smaller)

 

[Jacob Morres]

It's important to understand the entirety of a point rather than just a subset of it

 

It's like saying business of a whole is bad because there are some corrupt CEOs. There are many types of business, varying in degree of corruption and business as a core idea is still a very useful thing 

Same thing with the lgbtq community. Yes there are some people in the community who might subscribe to certain ideas. But don't prescribe that to everyone in the entire lgbtq community. That also doesnt makeup the entire lgbtq philosophy. Or the core ideas of it, which is important and insightful 

It's like saying Christianity is evil because they cut dudes foreskins off. It's just so overly simplified 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Jacob Morres