Don't take advice from unhappy people

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

 

There are a lot of factors that contribute to the state of being happy. Material factors like safety and health for example are essential for happiness. And there are psychological factors as well.

Happiness is not a simple binary thing like a toggle switch, it's rather more like a spectrum.

How happy/unhappy are you? That's a better question than simply: Are you happy or unhappy? When people talk about happiness/unhappiness, they usually refer to the dominant state at the moment, even though for most people both states exist at the same time at any given moment. It's just that the amounts/percentages might differ at each estimation.

I attempted to answer this question as would a professional who has studied happiness as a state of being. I began to feel like I would have to write at least an essay to even begin to explain all I think about this subject. In short, I think happiness is transient at best but the good news is that within a normal lifespan it comes and goes if we are fortunate. There are far too many people in the world suffering from war, disease, hunger, etc. to say that happiness exists in an absolute form and would feel the same for the same reasons for everyone. I imagine there are some people who have never known happiness. Think about your own life. Are you always happy? There's your answer for you personally.

Yes it's a not binary (you either happy or not ). But it is 100% under your control.  In fact if you have just 10% of good feelings in your life and you are gratefull for everything you have..you will be happy even if you struggle to put bread on the table . It's a mindset.  

External factors do plat a role .at what percentage is the question .I would say it only plays 40% of what makes up happiness. The rest is all internal .

6 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

But, could you ever go back to negative emotions, to remember them just for fun?

No .they are more than enough when they are happening.  You learn the lesson and you move on .only a fool will taste the same source of suffering twice just cuz .

 

[AtheisticNonduality]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No .they are more than enough when they are happening.  You learn the lesson and you move on .only a fool will taste the same source of suffering twice just cuz .

You're wrong.

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yes it's a not binary (you either happy or not ).

If you agree to this, then your thread makes no sense, as it would mean there's no happy/unhappy people to take advice from, and that this metric (happy people generate happy advice) doesn't really mean anything, which is what I originally said/implied.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Schizophonia]

When people are disgruntled/helpless their advice will be "flavored" by their willingness to inflate their ego, usually by victimizing themselves/imposing a ruthless worldview.

2 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

I take advice from experienced, intelligent, wise people, whether or not they're happy.

When people are disgruntled/helpless their advice will be "flavored" by their willingness to inflate their ego, usually by victimizing themselves/imposing a ruthless worldview.
Many disgruntled people are experienced, and most are unwise.

[AtheisticNonduality]

52 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

When people are disgruntled/helpless their advice will be "flavored" by their willingness to inflate their ego, usually by victimizing themselves/imposing a ruthless worldview.
Many disgruntled people are experienced, and most are unwise.

No, I mean to understand life well you need some capacity to continue to suffer and learn about suffering, either for assisting other people or just exploring reality

[Michael569]

Many experts, therapists, and coaches who could be masters in their field may not be 100% happy because, for example, their business might not be where they would like it to be. That doesn't mean they have nothing to teach you. 

In fact, if you go to someone who seems very successful, popular and probably happy, you may receive mediocre cookie-cutter service because they don't have time to go on a personal level and are more interested in growing their following than spending hours with each client/patient. 

Look beyond the most obvious and watch what their clients say about them and what changes their clients are receiving. 

But on the other hand, I agree that you shouldn't probably work with someone who just seems depressed. I had an assigned mentor back in school who was clearly depressed because her business was not doing well and she seemed extremely unhappy. And you could see that she was unfocused and always out there with her mind. 

So it is best to spend some time learning more about that person

[Sincerity]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

And I don't take any advice from unhappy people.
By unhappy people, I mean those who lack what I call "inner peace", meaning the consistent contentment of spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline).
Some people might call it "nirvana" or "the consistent joy of enlightenment". Some might just call it "true happiness". Some might just call it plain old happiness.

Lol, then You're not taking advice from at least 99,999% of people.

Sorry, but once again I call bs on your conviction that "you" "achieved" "true happiness". If You think You are free, You cannot escape your cell, as they say. Don't let that discourage You.

It's great that You're doing well, introducing all these habits into your life and breaking "bad" ones  Good job, keep it up and stay strong.

[Someone here]

@Sincerity

.Happiness is our essential nature/being.

However, we have learned a lot of bad habits and picked up a lot of beliefs and concepts that create miseries for ourselves. We create our own unhappiness.

Look at an infant’s face and you will likely see joy, happiness, and wonder. We forget all this as we grow up…and by adulthood forget the inherent joy and happiness of life.

[Someone here]

On 21/12/2022 at 10:40 PM, Gesundheit2 said:

If you agree to this, then your thread makes no sense, as it would mean there's no happy/unhappy people to take advice from, and that this metric (happy people generate happy advice) doesn't really mean anything, which is what I originally said/implied.

No .you are  misunderstanding . Of course there are happy people and miserable people.  I know because I was miserable in the past .and I'm happy now . To say there are no happy people or unhappy people is pedantic and ridiculous. 

Happy people make happiness their default feeling. They remain grateful for what they have. They spend no time pining for what they don’t. They do get angry, but unless they can channel it into a useful purpose (think parents who lost their child through the actions of another, and fight to stop it from happening to other kids), they let it go quickly. They don’t wallow in the emotion.

There are sad people obviously. Sadness comes into all of our lives. Sometimes it takes a full grieving process to rid ourselves of it. Happy people can always shorten this process by practicing acceptance. That is knowing that everything is what it is. Though it takes some adjustments, we often have to follow the curves life takes us on, rather than forging straight ahead. 

[Someone here]

On 22/12/2022 at 0:10 AM, Michael569 said:

Many experts, therapists, and coaches who could be masters in their field may not be 100% happy because, for example, their business might not be where they would like it to be. That doesn't mean they have nothing to teach you. 

In fact, if you go to someone who seems very successful, popular and probably happy, you may receive mediocre cookie-cutter service because they don't have time to go on a personal level and are more interested in growing their following than spending hours with each client/patient. 

Look beyond the most obvious and watch what their clients say about them and what changes their clients are receiving. 

But on the other hand, I agree that you shouldn't probably work with someone who just seems depressed. I had an assigned mentor back in school who was clearly depressed because her business was not doing well and she seemed extremely unhappy. And you could see that she was unfocused and always out there with her mind. 

So it is best to spend some time learning more about that person

Yes I agree .but also depressed people need empathy and compassion. 

You know that life can go either way right? One bad experience, circumstance or life altering decision could throw you into depression.
How would you feel if everyone who thought their life was so perfect didn’t want to be brought down by you and turned their back on you when you needed them?

People suffering with depression don’t need  negative attitude towards mental health brought to their doors.

[Someone here]

On 22/12/2022 at 0:40 AM, Sincerity said:

Lol, then You're not taking advice from at least 99,999% of people.

Sorry, but once again I call bs on your conviction that "you" "achieved" "true happiness". If You think You are free, You cannot escape your cell, as they say. Don't let that discourage You.

It's great that You're doing well, introducing all these habits into your life and breaking "bad" ones  Good job, keep it up and stay strong.

I don't know why you always doubting me bro ?..I guess I know myself and what I'm experiencing better than you. Because you need to have the first person experience to know it and obviously you are not me .so you can't accurately judge me .

[Gesundheit2]

@Someone here Please define your stance and stick with it. I can't reply to you like this. In one post you say happiness is not binary, in another you say it is. Which one is it?

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Someone here Please define your stance and stick with it. I can't reply to you like this. In one post you say happiness is not binary, in another you say it is. Which one is it?

Let's get some definitions clear first  . What is "binary "? It doesn't mean there are no happy people and no unhappy people..it simply means that happiness is not like an on and off switch.  It comes in degrees and variations.  And you can confirm that from your past .

Why am I saying this because i do have some reasons.

our whole life we keep on running after happiness but an ideal human being is never happy. This is necessary because its not "binary " . So you never can say "at this exact moment I'm happy ". ٧ you can't quantify it . Do you understand what I mean ?

 

[Gesundheit2]

@Someone here Okay, let's stick with happiness that comes in degrees and variations.

So, which degrees and variations generate valid advice in your opinion? Can you define a starting point at which a person can finally start generating valid, happy advice? It doesn't have to be accurate, I'm just trying to see how you're thinking about this.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

So, which degrees and variations generate valid advice in your opinion? Can you define a starting point at which a person can finally start generating valid, happy advice? It doesn't have to be accurate, I'm just trying to see how you're thinking about

If one brings happiness to others its others who are happy. The happiness of others does not magically transfer onto the one who caused it. Comedians, for example, do suffer from depression.

There is no such thing as “bringing happiness to other people”. One can bring up the feelings of joy, safety, comfort, excitement in others, but those are passing emotions. Not happiness. Happiness is a much deeper, more fundamental state of being that one derives from how one chooses to relate with oneself. Bringing other happiness is like bringing others falling in love - both falling in love and being happy is something everyone must find for oneself. So what I'm suggesting is that both happy and unhappy people cannot transfer happiness to you .however (and this  is very important) ,unhappy people can definitely give you lame advice .whereas happy people (who are generally happy ,which isn't something that can be measured with a radar) can put on your path towards happiness. They can only show you the path .but you gotta walk it yourself. 

[Gesundheit2]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If one brings happiness to others its others who are happy. The happiness of others does not magically transfer onto the one who caused it. Comedians, for example, do suffer from depression.

There is no such thing as “bringing happiness to other people”. One can bring up the feelings of joy, safety, comfort, excitement in others, but those are passing emotions. Not happiness. Happiness is a much deeper, more fundamental state of being that one derives from how one chooses to relate with oneself. Bringing other happiness is like bringing others falling in love - both falling in love and being happy is something everyone must find for oneself. So what I'm suggesting is that both happy and unhappy people cannot transfer happiness to you .however (and this  is very important) ,unhappy people can definitely give you lame advice .whereas happy people (who are generally happy ,which isn't something that can be measured with a radar) can put on your path towards happiness. They can only show you the path .but you gotta walk it yourself. 

Most of this post is basically mostly about distinguishing inner peace or whatever you want to call it from emotional highs, which - regardless of true or false - is kind of irrelevant to the point we're concerned with.

However, the point that you're making is still the same. Happy people give happy advice, and unhappy people give lame advice. You're just repeating your original thread in a different way, without actually explaining anything or providing arguments for why what you're claiming should be true. I personally have no problem with adopting your perspective, but sell it to me better than this. Provide real arguments. Give me some food for my brain. This regurgitation is not enough.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

. Provide real arguments. Give me some food for my brain. This regurgitation is not enough.

To you there are no arguments.  To me, it's obvious. Because I've experienced myself what it means to be really messed up mentally and what it means to be happy.  So i have a frame of reference that makes me distinguish the two.

For  example..Unhappy people look for happiness in the wrong places. They spend their time focusing on what others think of them, when they should focus on themselves. An unhappy person concentrates on trying to please others, in an effort to gain approval.

This is something we should refrain from doing. You cannot always gain approval from others, nor can you tailor your beliefs to suit others. You will only find dissatisfaction in this. To be happy you must put yourself and your beliefs first. Do what makes you happy and not what others will approve others.

Unhappy people see the negatives in life, their main focus being what they don’t have. They tell themselves, “if only I had this job, I’d be happier” or “if only I had more time, I could focus on my real talents”. Unhappy people believe that they need something they don’t have to be happier. Their focus remains on these things they don’t have, making their everyday life boring and unsatisfying. So how could such people give you advice on about how to gain what they themselves have failed to gain ? It's really a simple logic . It's like asking poor people for advice on how to escape poverty ?. 

 

[Gesundheit2]

@Someone here

So, you're saying you can't give what you don't have. Alright, let's go with that one.

Well, that might be true in many different cases. Like, I can't/shouldn't give legal advice if I haven't studied in law school and/or the laws of India for example. As well, I can't/shouldn't give medical advice if I haven't studied in medical school. I think we both agree on this so far, unless what you're suggesting is that just because you're an Indian citizen then you should already be able to give legal advice, or that a healthy person is automatically a doctor, which I don't think you are.

So, if we apply the same logic to happiness, the conclusion should be the same. I can't/shouldn't give happiness advice if I haven't studied happiness and/or possibly psychology. So, I can study happiness and/or psychology and then give advice, regardless of my internal state or relationship with happiness. Having a theoretical knowledge allows me to give advice in whichever field I've studied. I'm just applying the same logic as in law and medical knowledge here, nothing too sophisticated. Though, granted that I might just be parroting happy advice from happy people. That still doesn't invalidate the advice, nor does it automatically validate it either, at least for me. I try my best to take every input from the outside world and examine it in isolation of everything else, whilst considering everything else. I think this gives me the best and most accurate perception/map of reality.

What I can conclude from that is that advice is mainly about knowledge/understanding, but not necessarily first-hand experience. Although obviously, first-hand experience can enhance that knowledge/understanding and take it to the next level in some cases. But it also might nullify it completely as well. For example, if you're born so happy that you didn't have to study the nature of happiness at all, this will likely set you up to be a bad happiness advisor, even though it's your innate experience. You might be happy, but this happiness would be so close to you that you wouldn't be able to see it in order to articulate it to others. You would just say: "It's easy! Just be happy, man". But that would not be helpful for most people.

At the end of the day, I think what we should seek to understand is what an advice really is ultimately. In my perspective, an advice is just a perspective, merely words from a seemingly conscious entity that is called a human. I can take the advice as just that, I can discard it, or I can take it as absolute truth. The choice is mine to make at the end of the day. And also the interpretation of those words is mine to make. All advice is going to pass the filter of my awareness before it's interpreted, so I need to take that into account too in order to eliminate any potential biases.

[Sincerity]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't know why you always doubting me bro ?..I guess I know myself and what I'm experiencing better than you. Because you need to have the first person experience to know it and obviously you are not me .so you can't accurately judge me .

If You think You "know what You're experiencing" (= understand reality) better than everyone else (), then God help You. 

[Breakingthewall]

there are two kinds of happiness. the happiness that comes from having all your needs met is one. very difficult, since there is always some downside. or the possibility that there will be one. or the possibility of losing that happiness. or the possibility of being diagnosed with a brain tumor tomorrow.

the other happiness is the one that flows if you are open to the total glory that existence is. That is why we do this work, to open ourselves to what we are, total love, joy. the infinite source that looks like a person right now. This happiness is without condition, and it is pure like clean water.