Free speech is an illusion

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura, don't you think free speech is an illusion? The right wingers get cancelled because of their controversial opinions and the left-wingers get cancelled too. On Twitter terrorist organizations like isis and al-Qaeda have Twitter accounts whereas Andrew Tate and donald trump got banned. what is absolute free speech and does it even exist? 

[Tyler Robinson]

Free speech is not entirely free. And precisely because it's called free speech it gets moderated all the time. 

Basically free speech is — free speech plus caveats. 

This is to prevent people from abusing free speech and using it to weaponize and as a license to offend or spread hate speech. 

So you see, free speech limitations exist to protect people from the destructive misuse of free speech. This almost applies to anything at all. Nothing is really free. Everything comes with an inherent set of limitations and caveats and conditions to prevent abuse 

[Leo Gura]

You'd have to be fool to ever believe "free speech" existed. Free speech is a myth that people parrot because they've never actually bothered to think about how speech works in a community.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura that's why I said free speech is an illusion. What type of speech is the most conscious in society ? 

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura for example you don't let people post and have a healthy discussion about conservative conspiracy theories. Aren't you limiting the freedom of speech of certain people?

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura What type of speech is the most conscious in society ? 

Conscious speech.

10 minutes ago, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura  Aren't you limiting the freedom of speech of certain people?

Yup. That's called society.

[Antor8188]

@Leo Gura define conscious speech?

[Leo Gura]

@Antor8188 Define anything.

[JosephKnecht]

On 21/12/2022 at 10:00 AM, Antor8188 said:

what is absolute free speech and does it even exist? 

Absolutely free speech exists but it involves you yelling into a pillow.

You can yell all you want, but there is nobody that listens. 

Absolutely free speech includes the freedom of others not to listen. 

[Danioover9000]

@Antor8188

On 2022-12-21 at 9:00 AM, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura, don't you think free speech is an illusion? The right wingers get cancelled because of their controversial opinions and the left-wingers get cancelled too. On Twitter terrorist organizations like isis and al-Qaeda have Twitter accounts whereas Andrew Tate and donald trump got banned. what is absolute free speech and does it even exist? 

   Fundamentally, and existentially? Yes. Relatively speaking? Not really. There's so many factors, degrees and hierarchies of freedom of speech, and even having freedom for yourself and your family in comparison to others in your society, or in other societies out in the world.

   For example, this Coffeezilla guy has the right of freedom of speech to give negative takes and criticisms about Bill Gates, whether in good faith or bad faith, being uncharitable or charitable or straw manning or not the guy's views:

   And I have the right of freedom of speech here, in this forum, relative to me not breaking forum guidelines, to say what I think about this guys views and criticism, which is inaccurate. From his views, not so from the situation he's covering, I have a very simple take on that.

   Yes, it all depends on SD stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing, ego development, states of consciousness, life experiences and other lines of development in different areas of life, worldviews and ideologies indoctrinated into you from upbringing. In this case I'm gonna give an oversimplified take of this issue. I think that he has a distorted view of reality, which likely came from two, or maybe more, places:

His past of getting scammed and coned, a source of trauma.

His struggle of financial security as a journalist.

His experimentations around his YouTube Channel, at first friendly interviews with fellow YouTubers, until one type of video that got traction was his criticism of Tai Lopez or some other self-help Guru, which got him so many views that he ended up deciding to niche down on complaining and doing investigative journalism, despite how disruptive it is to those targeted by it. Potentially this is him being a vigilante.

   There are plenty more places for his distortion, so I want to say, that this guy has the freedom of speech, even though it fundamentally is an illusion, when the day comes that it is an illusion, that's when it really feels bad.

[Danioover9000]

@JosephKnecht

On 2022-12-22 at 0:12 PM, JosephKnecht said:

Absolutely free speech exists but it involves you yelling into a pillow.

You can yell all you want, but there is nobody that listens. 

Absolutely free speech includes the freedom of others not to listen. 

   That's one side of absolute freedom of speech. The other side, is the opposite: the absolute right to freedom of speech, by not saying anything. Like I go into a store, I don't care about the clerk or other customers, I grab what items I need for Christmas (for example), pay the cashier and leave. I don't care about a stranger hitting on me or cold approaching me, I don't care for hellos and how are yous, from strangers for whatever motive small talk. I keep it very short, a sometimes a nod or wave, and leave.

   "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do will be used against you in the court of law." Sound familiar? 

[Danioover9000]

@Antor8188

On 2022-12-22 at 0:51 AM, Antor8188 said:

@Leo Gura define conscious speech?

   I am going meta, becoming more and more self aware of my speech patterns, thought patterns and emotions. I also am increasingly conscious of how my speech, at first in my immediate area and proximity, effects others in my family and friends circles, up to my community and even my online community. I am not burred too much in my own basic needs and survival, that I have just enough care and awareness to maybe change my way of speaking, out of courtesy to others that receive my communication. I ain't a saint or priest, my empathy and understanding has a limit, but I'll at least try, even a little bit, to be more aware and self correct my speaking to my community and even other communities, in accounting of my own egoic biases and preferences and ideologies in my mind.

[Danioover9000]

@Tyler Robinson

On 2022-12-21 at 9:07 AM, Tyler Robinson said:

Free speech is not entirely free. And precisely because it's called free speech it gets moderated all the time. 

Basically free speech is — free speech plus caveats. 

This is to prevent people from abusing free speech and using it to weaponize and as a license to offend or spread hate speech. 

So you see, free speech limitations exist to protect people from the destructive misuse of free speech. This almost applies to anything at all. Nothing is really free. Everything comes with an inherent set of limitations and caveats and conditions to prevent abuse 

   Exactly, the majority of the time that freedom comes with conditions that need to be met. How it's still called freedom of speech and still today needs to change a bit, it's misleading people into believing that anything you say goes is okay because it's freedom of speech, and America is the land of the free...until you're taken to court and sued for defamation of course.

   Of course, this largely concerns speech and forms of communication to others, but we also should talk about behaviors, I think maybe fans of freedom of speech may have to agree, that America isn't a free zone of anything you do is fair and okay. This not The Purge or anything.

[Wildcattt555]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

You'd have to be fool to ever believe "free speech" existed. Free speech is a myth that people parrot because they've never actually bothered to think about how speech works in a community.

free speech does not mean freedom from consequences or the right to force social media outlets to platform you.. it's protection from government censorship, among other things, and is outlined in the first amendment  it "exists." 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Wildcattt555