No self-referential thoughts = higher functionality; adolescence vs. adulthood

[Danioover9000]

@Nilsi

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

I find this extremely interesting and would love to get closer to the bottom of this, so Ill just restate my point again:

I was talking about transcendence, ensoulment and development as all being irreducible constituents of the psyche. A similar typology is being, becoming, doing. 

Do you understand what Im saying? And then assuming you do, what do you disagree about here?

I see this as a much more mature and healthy approach than just escaping into being, which I find quite cowardly and unoriginal.

   Oh, I see now, makes sense. Never mind what I was posting.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Why is adulthood important? 

"Because there is nothing uglier than an old infant ?" - Jordan Peterson

Adulthood in its own time is important.

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

This cannot be proved at all. 

This seems like some far fetched projection.

Do you want me to prove it to you? 

[Tyler Robinson]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"Because there is nothing uglier than an old infant ?" - Jordan Peterson

Adulthood in its own time is important.

You're quoting a pseudo intellectual who has lately turned into a joke and needs adulthood lessons himself.

Now back to both or us in the room. Why is adulthood important? 

Your arguments please.. 

You didn't give me any so far. 

 

[Mu_]

On 12/20/2022 at 4:20 PM, Carl-Richard said:

The question is just do you want to stay in the world of imagination and fantasy like Peter Pan or do you want to grow up and be in the world? Adolescent self-indulgence vs. adult responsibility. Tell me if you see the connection:
 

 

This all makes ‘sense’ but isn’t necessarily pointing to the actuality of reality.   
 

one of the big presumptions that seems to be indicated in them is there is someone there to do anything , one way or the other. 
 
now don’t get me wrong, it feels this way often, no?  But this isn’t necessarily evidence it is this way. 
 

The videos also go off of dualistic notions that there is a fundamental mature vs immature or adult vs child. All notions that again can feel and seem this way , but are not necessarily more true than dreams that felt real as well. 
 

that said, be kind, try and do well however that may seem and don’t run around naked yelling nothings real. 

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

You're quoting a pseudo intellectual who has lately turned into a joke and needs adulthood lessons himself.

He is a great intellectual. You just don't agree with him politically.

 

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

Now back to both or us in the room. Why is adulthood important? 

Your arguments please.. 

You didn't give me any so far. 

This reminds me of when I was writing my research paper and I was arguing with myself about whether I should find arguments for whether or not Christianity can be considered a religion, or whether I should just say it's a trivial point and move on  I think it's a trivial point.

[Tyler Robinson]

I don't have a lot of time on my hands. 

Okay so this thread is not going to be taken seriously by me as long as the OP does not explain me fully and functionally without alluding to third party BS two major questions in full seriousness and depth. 

And If the OP cannot do this without just joking, throwing things around, beating the bush, saying vague things then sorry he loses the argument completely and all his information in this thread is Null 

So these are two basic questions the OP needs to come up with intelligent answers for and no cross questioning. That would be evasion to. 

(I'll come back after some time to see if valid arguments were really offered or the same beating around the bush is going on, okay) 

So here's the questions - 

Why is adulthood important? 

How do you prove that self ruminations are destructive or not make a person functional? 

What can adult do that an adolescent cannot do?

Answer these questions without beating around  the bush and I'll take the thread seriously. 

Till then adios 

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Tyler Robinson said:

How do you prove that self ruminations are destructive or not make a person functional?

 

Quote

Patients suffering from mental health problems often complain about thinking too much. Their mind is frequently focused on negative thoughts about their symptoms, problems, or negative experiences.

Traditionally, researchers and clinicians have either regarded this type of rumination as an epiphenomenon or consequence of suffering from mental health problems, or – as in the case of cognitive therapy – have mostly been interested in the content of these thoughts. However, there is increasing evidence suggesting that rumination, defined as a process of repetitive negative thinking, is a causal mechanism involved in the development and maintenance of psychopathology.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8429319/

[Ahbapx]

Some people's thinking patterns are so compulsive, they forget where they start,

This "Letting go of I, Me" pattern is perfect example for that.

They want to stop compulsive thoughts, and they can not stop their instincts of those thoughts so that they slowly believed a story which stops the one who is trying to stop compulsive thinking.

Therefore a useful accident occurred, compulsive thinking evolved and turned into a semi-conscious&compulsive thinking.

Even though it helps them, it is still an accident and semi-wrong. All these sarcastic,extremely chill vibes coming from knowing they can't even explain it but they know it still works.

 

 

"Letting go of "I, Me, Mine""

There is two different approach to a statement like this,  to go beyond ideas like these understand both of the approaches.

 

First approach is easier, and more common :

Questioning;  Who is the one who is letting go of "I, Me, Mine" ?  so that  , "I" gets found, and statement is disproved... but that was not the point...

 

Very rare approach is :

Questioning ; is it about finding who is letting go of "I, Me, Mine" , or... is it about finding the problematic thought/questioning pattern which is "Letting go of "I, Me, Mine".

 

PS.  The guy in the video start talking in the video as "I"... "Letting go of "I, Me, Mine"...

Irrelevant? Sarcasm , Lie ? Dementia ?  Joke? maybe all of them?

 

the point is starting with trying to understand where things are and where they should be better.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ahbapx

[Tyler Robinson]

@Carl-Richard hello you're talking about mental health problems. I expect better out of you. Are you seriously looking down on them? 

[Tyler Robinson]

This thread is your cognitive bias Carl and you fail to see it. You're too enveloped to see outside the box.. 

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

@Carl-Richard hello you're talking about mental health problems. I expect better out of you. Are you seriously looking down on them? 

Society usually calls something a mental health problem if, according to society, there is a problem with functionality.

[Tyler Robinson]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Society usually calls something a mental health problem if, according to society, there is a problem with functionality.

For people like you I have a proverb that I invented —

Wear your struggles and scars as badges and medals rather than as failures and flaws. 

 

[Proserpina]

38 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

For people like you I have a proverb that I invented —

Wear your struggles and scars as badges and medals rather than as failures and flaws. 

 

Exactly.  Functionality is not something to aspire to as much as non-functionality is.  There holds a place in this universe for the small and meek or adolescent or non-functional or non-powerful.  Happiness and nirvana are often given to the unlikeliest of creatures.  Divine order. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Proserpina

[Tyler Robinson]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Society usually calls something a mental health problem if, according to society, there is a problem with functionality.

I don't want to know what society usually calls. Because I don't have a weak spirit to rely on bullshit social validation. 

You Sir, your arguments are low consciousness and you don't have a Stallion mindset. Weak-willed is how I will characterize your arguments. 

A stallion mindset embraces weaknesses rather than demonizing them. I have a stallion mindset so I can see light where others see darkness, and I can see hope where others see despair and loss. 

If anyone needs a lesson in adulthood more than anyone else, it's you. Value is where value is created, where a person sees value in who they are and what they can give. 

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And if you're too blind, you won't see beauty in weakness. 

I swear this entire forum has a shadow against mentally ill. Everyone is always demonizing or scoffing at the mentally ill here. When the truth is the greatest insights on this forum have come from mentally ill people here. 

You might as well have said — a man who lost his legs in an accident is not functional anymore. Yea lol so much for maturity. 

I feel like calling @Proserpina here. Well she came just when I'm typing. 

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

You might as well have said — a man who lost his legs in an accident is not functional anymore.

There was a loss of functioning there, yes.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Devin]

@Carl-Richard What is ultimately 'needed' In the grand scheme?

Love. Does anything else actually make a difference? And how can you truly Love? No-self

To me love/no-self is 'peter pan fun' and 'serious adult work'.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Devin

[Tyler Robinson]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There was a loss of functioning there, yes.

No there is no loss there. Loss is what you created from a biased perspective. 

He is functional. It's just that your ego doesn't value it.

[Tyler Robinson]

@Carl-Richard and one more. 

I'll not accept your thread as credible as long as you don't answer my three original questions properly in full length. 

By the way you have failed to provide arguments to my questions. 

Your thread is still Null. Void. 

You're not able to support your thread with any amount of credibility. 

Sorry but that's where we stand. 

[Proserpina]

Honestly, what is the point of spirituality and spiral dynamics and all this talk of a 'bigger picture' if no one can get this basic premise?  That the meek and the small are not necessarily less evolved and less enlightened in the greater scheme of things.  When you step outside your own ego and your own maps and science, the significance of others' value in the greater scheme of things becomes clearer.  The world is more nuanced than boxes of 'functional' and 'non-functional'. Many of the supposed 'non-functional' have something to offer and are functional is the greater picture.  But they are silent about it. How can they speak on something so complex, how can they champion themselves when they have so many struggles? This is a serious problem.  The functional are loud. They have no problems championing themselves and so their point of view is the majority rule and very attractive for an ego to unconsciously adopt their perspective.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Proserpina