Was Alan Watts right about this??

[Bob Seeker]

Alan watts lived by the statement of D.T. Suzuki who said "I've given up satori altogether. Now I am trying to forma as many attachments as I can"

This seems to be what psychedelics show you. Like that you are here to be here, and to have no aversion to feeling anything, instead of insisting on feeling good or being spiritual or detached. 

It is like meta-detachment. detachment from being detached.

I like that if followed it is like being your screwy self to the max and no-longer waiting til that promised day when your life is all good, which never seems to come, at least for most of us.

I mean Alan Watts had like 2 divorces or something and he drank alcohol I believe. So I think you may well end up "running amok", but maybe this is the way it should be.

At least if we are unafraid of feeling even the worst things, then we will have no barrier to living fully because the only thing we could be afraid of is feeling like shit anyway.

Do you agree?

[Devin]

I doubt I agree with how Alan Watts actually believed it, it could easily be misinterpreted.

I agree get to 'enlightenment' but then live, live an actual life, enjoy everything, being 'attached' to everything, the key is to not be attached to just somethings, but ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, that doesn't mean being a heroin user, but seeing the beauty in heroin.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Devin

[Razard86]

The path is a cycle. First you unattach, then you reattach but you don't attach in a neurotic or absolute sense. You attach relatively, you delete all absolute identities and turn them into relative identities. This allows you to be a shape shifter which is what your true nature is.

The point of spirituality is to get rid of your absolute identities so you aren't always getting stuck demonizing your opposite, getting full of fear and judgment and suffering. The truth is it isn't attachment that causes suffering, its absolute attachment that causes suffering. Completely unattaching is actually itself a judgment lol. 

Relative attachment is impermanence, complete detachment is avoidance which is itself a sneaky form of fear.

[Bob Seeker]

12 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

you don't attach in a neurotic or absolute sense. You attach relatively, you delete all absolute identities and turn them into relative identities

Good distinction. I wonder how I could implement this in my life. 

It is like the Joker, how he ends up in jail and still manages to have a blast.

I wonder if this is irresponsible compared to just attracting the things you want using Law of Attraction, or if you can do both at the same time.

I just don't want to feel like I am waiting to live anymore. I want to feel fully alive NOW.

idk, any advice?

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bob Seeker

[Carl-Richard]

You can't practice detachment.

[Bob Seeker]

19 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can't practice detachment.

I don't see the connection to what I posted. Can you explain? 

What I am saying is let yourself feel everything and don't have aversion to it, and this will allow you to not need any specific outcome and thus you can feel and also feel fully alive and like yourself, going with the flow. 

If there is an issue with this philosophy I would like to hear it. 

[Gesundheit2]

Both attachment and detachment are extremes in my view. Aim for the right balance. What you want is engagement without dependence. In other words, don't be afraid to live, but also don't lose yourself in life.

Be conscious, and live.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Alex1o1]

For me , when i recently reached a state of complete death and complete detachment, the only thing that made sense after that was to do some big dives in the matrix again. I notice a tendency to balance out on the extreme of attachment, but my spiritual habits keep me from changing from one day to the next. When that enlightenment happened i felt there was no need to be involved in "spirituality" ever again. 

Similarly my favorite Quote from Alan: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1501096-let-s-suppose-that-you-were-able-every-night-to-dream#:~:text=“Let's suppose that you were able every night to dream,time you wanted to have.

[vladorion]

The fact that Alan Watts was drinking a lot shows there was stuff he didn't want to feel.

That's the only reason you'd take a drug like alcohol on a regular basis.

[integral]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can't practice detachment.

Why not? 

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, integral said:

Why not? 

 

You can't practice letting go.

[integral]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can't practice letting go.

Practice refers to the repetition of an activity or skill with the aim of improving or mastering it.

Is letting go a skill❓

 

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, integral said:

Practice refers to the repetition of an activity or skill with the aim of improving or mastering it.

Is letting go a skill❓

Let go of your entire life right now.

[integral]

33 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Let go of your entire life right now.

We can let go of things we have control of emotions, perceptions, opinions, concepts, ideas...all subtle objects. To practice letting go of these would result in taking them less seriously or viewing from a perspective of non-identification with them. So we can let go of our identification with concepts like "my entire life" that would satisfy the command you gave. In the end letting go is a reframing of ones current identification or attachments or meaning making. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by integral

[Carl-Richard]

@integral You have to work on things, exhaust them, and then you can let go of them for good. "Practicing" letting go in the moment as some kind of temporary symptomatic relief is not what I mean by "letting go" or becoming "detached". If the patterns aren't dealt with at the root, they will arise again. You can't let go of sex, of your work, of your children, if you haven't built up to the point where that is appropriate. The ultimate conclusion to this is letting go of everything. That is all that matters in the end.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Tyler Robinson]

@Carl-Richard burning through the karma. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Tyler Robinson

[Tyler Robinson]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@integral You have to work on things, exhaust them, and then you can let go of them for good. "Practicing" letting go in the moment as some kind of temporary symptomatic relief is not what I mean by "letting go" or becoming "detached". If the patterns aren't dealt with at the root, they will arise again. You can't let go of sex, of your work, of your children, if you haven't built up to the point where that is appropriate. The ultimate conclusion to this is letting go of everything. That is all that matters in the end.

Isn't letting go a form of spiritual bypassing? 

[vishnusavestheday]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Isn't letting go a form of spiritual bypassing? 

Maybe try letting go of spiritual bypassing as a problem and holding to strict guidelines that define the present moment.

Aren't you also holding certain the consideration that spiritual bypassing is inherently limiting?

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Isn't letting go a form of spiritual bypassing? 

Not if you're actually ready to finally let go. It's when that is the only thing that is keeping you from proceeding in your spiritual growth. That is what you're building up to anyway. The problematic types of letting go are as I said when you play hide and seek with your own mind instead of facing yourself fully and taking responsibility for all aspects of yourself.

[vishnusavestheday]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Not if you're actually ready to finally let go. It's when that is the only thing that is keeping you from proceeding in your spiritual growth. That is what you're building up to anyway. The problematic types of letting go are as I said when you play hide and seek with your own mind instead of facing yourself fully and taking responsibility for all aspects of yourself.

I like this answer. Typically, if something is bothering me, I first gently probe the idea with "Do I truly want to bear this as suffering? Do I really want to identify with this problem today?" 

 

Sometimes we have to just be calm enough to approach ourselves, realign with our values, then let troubles pass.