is stage red conservative ?

[Tatyana]

On 20.12.2022 at 11:12 AM, axiom said:

Spiral dynamics is arbitrary nonsense.

I find a lot of value in this model. It helped me to understand the difference between people caused ultimately by various degrees of finiteness of their consciousness. It gave me so much clarity. 

For me this spiral is also a perfect illustration of gradual evolvement of human consciousness from fear (lower stages: purple, red, blue, maybe even orange) to love (higher stages), from the state most distant from God to the God-like state.

[Danioover9000]

@Tatyana

12 minutes ago, Tatyana said:

 

Although stage Purple is a champion in terms of fear (i.e. viewing the world beyond their “close circle” of family and friends as extremely dangerous and therefore being afraid of virtually everything due to clan mentality), stage Red has a lot of fear too. Even if some of them may seem brave or try to appear brave, there is one thing they definitely fear and this is a power greater than them. And they will submit to someone who is stronger or has more power (very basic survival strategy). This explains, for example, why Russians (the masses) are so submissive and why they don’t throw over this oppressive regime. This hierarchy of power is something normal to them and they are not willing to go against it. This is also the reason why Putin has always maintained the image of a strong leader. His rhetoric, his “macho” images that he likes to demonstrate to the public (hunting/fishing with a naked torso, diving in a bathyscaph, flying battle planes) serve this purpose and are usually very carefully staged. In reality we see a person hiding in his bunker during the pandemic and now during the war, as opposed to the Ukrainian leader who shows real bravery, for example, going to the front line.

Interstingly, “fearful/paranoid” are the words most often used now by Russian liberals to describe Putin.

   Basically, that's where they're conservative minded.

   Are orgies conservative or liberal to you?

[Tatyana]

51 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Are orgies conservative or liberal to you?

Do you mean orgy as a sexual activity or any excessive activity? Sorry if the question seems stupid ))

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Tatyana said:

I find a lot of value in this model. It helped me to understand the difference between people caused ultimately by various degrees of finiteness of their consciousness. It gave me so much clarity. 

For me this spiral is also a perfect illustration of gradual evolvement of human consciousness from fear (lower stages: purple, red, blue, maybe even orange) to love (higher stages), from the state most distant from God to the God-like state.

Models can convince us we understand something, no doubt.

[Tatyana]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Models can convince us we understand something, no doubt.

How about models supported by direct experience?