is stage red conservative ?

[axiom]

@Oeaohoo 

it depends what you mean by truth.

In my opinion, Truth (capital T) has infinite resolution and thus cannot be circumscribed nor even approximated by any human model.

That is not to disregard the apparent usefulness of some human models which attempt to expediently approach truth (lower case t) for survival purposes, entropy reduction etc.

[Oeaohoo]

58 minutes ago, axiom said:

@Oeaohoo 

it depends what you mean by truth.

In my opinion, Truth (capital T) has infinite resolution and thus cannot be circumscribed nor even approximated by any human model.

That is not to disregard the apparent usefulness of some human models which attempt to expediently approach truth (lower case t) for survival purposes, entropy reduction etc.

What is the relationship between truth and Truth? If there isn’t one, why do you use the same word?

[Carl-Richard]

@Oeaohoo @axiom Convenient fictions. Go.

[axiom]

Humans talk a lot about truth when what they usually mean is expedience. 

I think it’s quite nice to refer to this as truth with a small ‘t’, or perhaps “truth” (in quotes)

[axiom]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Oeaohoo @axiom Convenient fictions. Go.

Right, exactly - convenient fictions. That’s all we ever have, but we like to grandstand. 

[Jannes]

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

In your dreams kid.

A philosophy professor of mine talked about a special philosopher he knew personally. „Even when he was 80 years old he could talk to people at every age at eye level because he had the attitude that he could learn something from everybody.“

[Oeaohoo]

13 minutes ago, axiom said:

Right, exactly - convenient fictions. That’s all we ever have, but we like to grandstand. 

What makes one fiction more convenient than another?

[axiom]

26 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

What makes one fiction more convenient than another?

The energy bill (apparent fitness payoff)

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

7 hours ago, Devin said:

Liberal and conservative aren't strict opposites.

The opposite of conservative is progressive

The opposite of liberal is more like totalitarianism or authoritarianism

   That's obvious in a political context, but OP is asking about if stage red are mostly conservative mined.

   So, unlike the political spectrum, OP is asking about the general state of being or mind of those within stage red values systems.

   May the better question instead of asking WHERE are you liberal or conservative, think of it as WHERE are you fearful/close minded, and WHERE are you brave/open minded. OP then, is asking along those lines.

   In politics, those who are stage red dominant are typically those who are under and within authoritarian regimes, tyrants, dictators. However, that's not what the OP wants to know. He's more asking are people under stage red typically fearful/paranoid, or brave/open minded?

[Stovo]

As a general rule the lower someone's spiral stage the more conservative they are, whilst the higher someone's spiral stage the more progressive they are. 

However, this is relative. In a western society someone at stage red would be considered ultra conservative or far right. 

In a remote tribe someone at stage red might be considered progressive. 

[Danioover9000]

@Stovo

2 minutes ago, Stovo said:

As a general rule the lower someone's spiral stage the more conservative they are, whilst the higher someone's spiral stage the more progressive they are. 

However, this is relative. In a western society someone at stage red would be considered ultra conservative or far right. 

In a remote tribe someone at stage red might be considered progressive. 

   Not sure about the progressive part. Native American tribes, or African tribes in remote places, may not consider a person at stage red a progressive, they might consider that person a strong leader, or warlord, and typically they are actually more violent to be labeled as a progressive. Stage blue colonialists with muskets, canons, battle ships, maps, different languages, would be considered alien to these tribes, very low probability to label them 'progressive', but they have portions of stage red in them that they can be very brutal.

   Historically speaking, not speaking of current times, although you may continue using the present times.

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   That's obvious in a political context, but OP is asking about if stage red are mostly conservative mined.

   So, unlike the political spectrum, OP is asking about the general state of being or mind of those within stage red values systems.

   May the better question instead of asking WHERE are you liberal or conservative, think of it as WHERE are you fearful/close minded, and WHERE are you brave/open minded. OP then, is asking along those lines.

   In politics, those who are stage red dominant are typically those who are under and within authoritarian regimes, tyrants, dictators. However, that's not what the OP wants to know. He's more asking are people under stage red typically fearful/paranoid, or brave/open minded?

Both meanings of the term liberal were being used, which I thought was causing some muddling of the conversation.

[Stovo]

49 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Stovo

   Not sure about the progressive part. Native American tribes, or African tribes in remote places, may not consider a person at stage red a progressive, they might consider that person a strong leader, or warlord, and typically they are actually more violent to be labeled as a progressive. Stage blue colonialists with muskets, canons, battle ships, maps, different languages, would be considered alien to these tribes, very low probability to label them 'progressive', but they have portions of stage red in them that they can be very brutal.

   Historically speaking, not speaking of current times, although you may continue using the present times.

Agree they wouldn't call them progressive from their perspective but they would be progressive nonetheless as they'd be pushing the society forward. 

Worth noting that conservatives today don't believe that progressives are pushing society forward, even though they happily use the term "progressive" to describe them 

 

[Devin]

Natives would call Red Progressive, Red would try leading them or forcing them from their traditions.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Devin

[Stovo]

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

Natives would call Red Progressive, Red would try leading them or forcing them from their traditions.

It's a cultural thing really. The word "progressive" is a modern day western invention. Other cultures will use different words to mean a similar thing. 

[integral]

Are orgys conservative? Because red can love orgys. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by integral

[Danioover9000]

@integral

1 hour ago, integral said:

Are orgys conservative? Because red can loves orgys. 

   Orgies are members only, so very much conservative.

[How to be wise]

@Majed No. Blue/Orange is conservatism, while Green is liberalism.  

[Nilsi]

On 20.12.2022 at 4:02 PM, Oeaohoo said:

I completely agree with this as the major flaw in the way that models like Spiral Progress are applied around here.

I agree with this as well.

[Tatyana]

 

On 21.12.2022 at 1:49 AM, Danioover9000 said:

 In politics, those who are stage red dominant are typically those who are under and within authoritarian regimes, tyrants, dictators. However, that's not what the OP wants to know. He's more asking are people under stage red typically fearful/paranoid, or brave/open minded?

Although stage Purple is a champion in terms of fear (i.e. viewing the world beyond their “close circle” of family and friends as extremely dangerous and therefore being afraid of virtually everything due to clan mentality), stage Red has a lot of fear too. Even if some of them may seem brave or try to appear brave, there is one thing they definitely fear and this is a power greater than them. And they will submit to someone who is stronger or has more power (very basic survival strategy). This explains, for example, why Russians (the masses) are so submissive and why they don’t throw over this oppressive regime. This hierarchy of power is something normal to them and they are not willing to go against it. This is also the reason why Putin has always maintained the image of a strong leader. His rhetoric, his “macho” images that he likes to demonstrate to the public (hunting/fishing with a naked torso, diving in a bathyscaph, flying battle planes) serve this purpose and are usually very carefully staged. In reality we see a person hiding in his bunker during the pandemic and now during the war, as opposed to the Ukrainian leader who shows real bravery, for example, going to the front line.

Interstingly, “fearful/paranoid” are the words most often used now by Russian liberals to describe Putin.