Is Impermanence An Illusion?

[r0ckyreed]

Is change/impermanence an illusion?

My thoughts prior to reading Parmenides:

Given that the past and future are imaginary and only the Now exists, it follows that change is an illusion since there can be no change without time. And there can be no change without Truth.

If Truth is unchanging, then change ultimately is not true.  Change is an appearance of that which is unchanging.  But appearances are content within Truth.  The boundary between changing and unchanging doesn't exist.  Everything is Unchanging because Everything is Truth.  If the Truth can change, then the Truth has not always been. But the Truth by definition is eternal and unchanging.  If the Truth can change, then Truth is not an Absolute since what used to be the Absolute is no longer the Absolute; hence, it is a self-defeating.  Truth is unchanging by its nature.  That is why Truth is more fundamental than fact. All that appears to be changing is the Unchanging. Change is imaginary and is ultimately relative and not Absolute Truth.

Parmenides thoughts on change:

Parmenides gives the argument that if something exists, then it has always existed and always will be.  He states that the appearance of change is an illusion and we are misled by our senses.  Our mind is constructing change.  Parmenides also argues that everything is one.  Since the Universe is one thing, that means that all differences and distinctions are arbitrary such as the distinction between the changing and the unchanging. Differences in time are also an illusion according to Parmenides since the Universe is One and Time is always Now.  All of history is like a movie all contained on The One DVD.  The appearance of movement is an illusion.  It is just one impression and one occurrence.  The mind is imagining movement and frames.

Zeno's paradox 

- To get from point A to point B presupposes that you must go through an infinite number of tasks in finite time.  To get to point B, you must reach half of the way, then 1/4, then 1/16, then 1/32, then 1/100, and this goes all the way to infinity such that you never actually reach point B.  Point B is only imagined. You are always Here! You are never There and you never get There. Here is all you can be. Reason tells us that change is an illusion but our senses seem to tell us that change is possible. 

 

What are your thoughts on impermanence being an illusion? Given your understanding of Buddhism and the concept of anicca (impermanence) and the Eternal Now, how would you resolve this paradox? How can Now be unchanging/eternal and yet also be impermanent? Maybe it is like I suggested, impermanence is relative to the Unchanging Absolute?

Edited December 19, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Breakingthewall]

I would say that the absolute is all the changes. also the creation of time, and of anything else. the absolute is everything, and this experience is the absolute, only that is hidden. only shows a small part. This is exactly what seems to be happening right now. the ability to hide everything but this is a clever trick of infinite engineering that we call self. 

[vladorion]

I think the concept of impermanence in Buddhism doesn't refer to absolute truth but rather to the nature of manifestation.

You learn to see that all experiences come and go so you stop clinging to them.

[BipolarGrowth]

If change did not occur on any level, how would any experience occur at all? At very very fine degrees of perception, one can notice that each nanosecond coincides with tiny transitions in focus and attention, and no matter what sensate particle is most immediate in attention, that sensate particle will be at least slightly different in the next possible moment of perception. 
 

You can refute this with the belief “there’s no time bro” after watching one video on YouTube about how time is an illusion. I’m not saying you fall in that camp at all, but I say that because rather than refuting this on the level of belief, knowledge, concepts, ideas, or even “insight”, I think the value comes if you try to witness what I’m describing in your own experience before responding. Giving this way of looking at the smallest and fastest qualia you can locate for least 15 minutes would be ideal if you haven’t already done that sort of practice in the past. 

[Razard86]

Illusion and real are the same. If change was ONLY illusion then the truth cannot exist because the truth is the only thing that is real. If it wasn't real then it couldn't be true. If change doesn't exist, then nothing exists. So what is the truth? It is real and unreal, if it was clearly unreal then it could never be mistaken as real and nobody would have to meditate, self-inquiry, to find that it was an illusion. So what does this mean? Real and Unreal is a state of consciousness. If it is a state of unconsciousness, that means real and unreal CHANGES depending on the state. This means that change is REAL!!!

Stop trying to pin down infinity, YOU CANNOT! All language, all concept, all identity of ANY KIND IS RELATIVE!!!! All language is RELATIVE!!! The only absolute is relativity, which allows anything to be KNOWN at all. Without relativity, there is no contrast, and nothing to be known. Being doesn't need contrast to know it exists, but being does need contrast to experience what it is. 

Here is a visual representation for you.

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Razard86