Is the work of David Hawkins worthwhile?

[DocWatts]

Trying to decide if I want to continue reading 'Truth vs Falsehood', since it's not at all a short read. Can't tell yet if he's on to something, or if I'll get a few hundred pages in and come to discover that his epistemic schema has been a waste of time.

Is there an advantage to operationalizing levels of Consciousness in the way that he does?

Edited December 16, 2022 by DocWatts

[omar30]

Yes I have read his book about power vs force he has a unique perspective.

His work is super intuitive so if you're intuitive like me you will like his work.

[DocWatts]

3 minutes ago, omar30 said:

Yes I have read his book about power vs force he has a unique perspective.

His work is super intuitive so if you're intuitive like me you will like his work.

Finding it somewhat difficult to grok so far, but that could be that I don't yet have a solid frame of reference for the material.

I tend to approach epistomology from a dialectical, systems thinking perspective that's grounded in embodiment... Certainly haven't had that 'aha!' moment where the material has clicked for me yet (as I have with other difficult works on epistomology).

[Ulax]

@DocWatts I've only read his letting go book and I personally found it worth it. I guess it would depend on exactly what you're after.

I've been dedicating myself to his letting go technique recently and I believe I've got significant results from it.

I follow Frederick Dodson's levels of energy model which is similar to Hawkin's Levels of conscious model imo. Though I've taken the credibility of the model more on faith and intuition for the time being. So I don't know what credible you'd find these types of models.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, but you must use your brain. He says some nonsense.

[The Mystical Man]

Read all of his books and listen to his lectures. It's a profound body of work.

Edited December 16, 2022 by The Mystical Man

[StarStruck]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but you must use your brain. He says some nonsense.

Is Dodson any better?

[Ulax]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but you must use your brain. He says some nonsense.

@Leo Gura I would value hearing your opinion on what you think is the nonsense.

[Cathal]

@DocWatts Letting go; the pathway of surrender is fairly solid.

[Leo Gura]

On 12/16/2022 at 0:34 AM, StarStruck said:

Is Dodson any better?

I don't know him.

On 12/16/2022 at 1:37 AM, Ulax said:

@Leo Gura I would value hearing your opinion on what you think is the nonsense.

Mostly:

1) His scale of consciousness and his silly muscle testing.

2) His right-wing Boomer political takes.

[DocWatts]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know him.

Mostly:

1) His scale of consciousness and his silly muscle testing.

2) His right-wing Boomer political takes.

Saw a discussion on his book where someone described him as akin to 'Ben Shapiro writing about nonduality', which makes me wonder if I might be better off finding these insights elsewhere without wading through braindead political takes to get there...

Edited December 18, 2022 by DocWatts

[Ulax]

58 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Saw a discussion on his book where someone described him as akin to 'Ben Shapiro writing about nonduality', which makes me wonder if I might be better off finding these insights elsewhere without wading through braindead political takes to get there...

@DocWatts Did they give a reason as to why they made that comparison?

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Mostly:

1) His scale of consciousness and his silly muscle testing.

2) His right-wing Boomer political takes.

@Leo Gura Why are you dubious about his scale of consciousness?

[DocWatts]

7 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@DocWatts Did they give a reason as to why they made that comparison?

I guess I could just quote it in full (from a review on GoodReads):

"First book I have read by Dr. David Hawkins and it was very dissapointing. This is basically Ben Shapiro writing about nonduality. The majority of the book is him expressing privlieged, uneducated and unexamined American exceptionalist, imperialist, white supremacist, capitalist and patriarchical talking points and views.

There are some OK parts dealing with epistemology and ego mechanics, where there are some insights. However, these become quickly muddled with his ultra-conservativeness and arrogance of his gradation of consciousness level of various historical figures, ideologies etc.

If you are interested in a western take on spiritual enlightenment and nonduality I would recommend to instead turn to teachers such as Rupert Spira, Chuck Hillig, Leo Gura instead of Dr. Hawkins. Perhaps his other works focusing more strictly on epistemology, and less on his views on basically anything else, are better than this one."

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

Saw a discussion on his book where someone described him as akin to 'Ben Shapiro writing about nonduality', which makes me wonder if I might be better off finding these insights elsewhere without wading through braindead political takes to get there...

Why would anyone read Hawkins for his political takes? That's not his wheelhouse.

41 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@Leo Gura Why are you dubious about his scale of consciousness?

The better question is, Why are you not?

[Ulax]

@Leo Gura I am somewhat, i'm just curious about why you are

[StarStruck]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why would anyone read Hawkins for his political takes? That's not his wheelhouse.

The better question is, Why are you not?

Because you never explained why his scale is nonsense. You said reality can't be put in a scale, that is true but his scale doesn't go from 1-1000, it goes beyond 1000 so it is infinite. And the scale goes from linear to non-linear at LOC 500.

[Leo Gura]

You have no way of validating whether his scale is correct. You're just taking his word for it.

In fact, his scale is pretty easy to invalidate.

You cannot quantify consciousness on any scale. The attempt to do so is harmful nonsense.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Leo Gura

[PigeonPark]

@Leo Gura David Hawkins says that all sickness comes from the mind. I have heard other spiritual teachers say that all sickness comes form lack of love. Is ths actually true?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, PigeonPark said:

@Leo Gura David Hawkins says that all sickness comes from the mind. I have heard other spiritual teachers say that all sickness comes form lack of love. Is ths actually true?

Ramana Maharshi died of cancer.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Leo Gura