Leo, please elaborate about capitalism and communism

[Devin]

3 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

I am totally not an expert on the issue. But anecdotally when surfing reddit I get the impresion that majority of reddit demography wants free healthcare system and many people say it is the major problem of US system. But knowing that reddit is really out-of-ordinary demography I found some survey. I am not sure how to interpret it but I think the issue is much more complex than suggesting the majority does not want it.

source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/

My understanding is mostly anecdotal

[DocWatts]

13 hours ago, Devin said:

I'm not an elitist and I don't want a 'free' healthcare system, and I don't know one person in real life that does. The people rule the U.S..

No one is asking for 'free' health care, they're asking for a Universal Health Care system that's publicly funded through tax revenue. The military is also funded through public tax dollars, but no one in their right mind would call it 'free'. 

What we want is Health Care to be a public service, rather than a luxury for the well off. Fact is that the US pays exorbitant health care costs that are much higher than the rest of the world.

Edited December 21, 2022 by DocWatts

[spiritual memes]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Sounds to me like the only thing that will awaken you from your illusions is actually being forced to live under an authoritarian communist regime like that of Mao or Stalin.

Its interesting because my parents lived under Mao and they have an extremely favourable view of his regime. I know there's a lot of propaganda involved but still...

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Its interesting because my parents lived under Mao and they have an extremely favourable view of his regime. I know there's a lot of propaganda involved but still...

Lol

[Devin]

7 hours ago, DocWatts said:

No one is asking for 'free' health care, they're asking for a Universal Health Care system that's publicly funded through tax revenue. The military is also funded through public tax dollars, but no one in their right mind would call it 'free'. 

I don't really see a distinction but I was just referring to this comment where he said we don't have free health care

21 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

 

In Capitalist states like the US is the rich and powerful, they have the political influence to decide everything and that's why you guys don't have free healthcare and a good set of workers laws.

7 hours ago, DocWatts said:

What we want is Health Care to be a public service, rather than a luxury for the well off. Fact is that the US pays exorbitant health care costs that are much higher than the rest of the world.

Yes we pay a ridiculous amount, it also correlates with how ridiculously unhealthy Americans are.

[Hardkill]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The whole thing goes against the spirit of socialism, which is to equalize people, pay them fairly, and not have anyone lord over you.

In practice, in China, you are lorded over worse than in America, inequality is great, and the whole thing runs on bribes, corruption, and secret political connections and favors. You have billionaires in China who control most of the economy and are in bed with the politicians even worse than in America. China is far more corrupt than America. The whole point of socialism is to end such corruption and give little people power and freedom. Little people in China have less power than in America.

Unless you are in bed with the communist party in China, you will never be able to do serious business there.

China is capitalism with heavy top-down government controls based on corruption. It's a mixture of capitalism, authoritarianism, one-party rule, oligarchy, and nationalism. It's almost like a mild form of Nazism, or truly "national socialism" in the way that Hitler meant it.

Ah, I see what you mean now.

So, just because the CCP is a unified one party system that still owns a number of businesses across the country, that doesn't mean that China is really a socialist country. 

China has instead been always going totally against the true principles and ideals of socialism/communism.

I guess that means that in that case, the only thing they have in their country that could arguably be considered socialistic is the fact that they still greatly emphasize the idea of total unity in their country.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

Imagine if the Republican party seized power, banned all other parties, banned elections, bought up a bunch of businesses to rake in a bunch of money and power, appointed Mike Pence President for life, rounded up Muslims into Christian reeducation camps, and banned all public criticism of all this by censoring the whole internet at the ISP level and monitoring all your communications and arresting you.

That's basically China.

If you wanna call that socialism, okay, but you are making socialism look as appealing as a kick in the nuts.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine if the Republican party seized power, banned all other parties, banned elections, bought up a bunch of businesses to rake in a bunch of money and power, appointed Mike Pence President for life, rounded up Muslims into Christian reeducation camps, and banned all public criticism of all this by censoring the whole internet at the ISP level and monitoring all your communications and arresting you.

That's basically China.

If you wanna call that socialism, okay, but you are making socialism look as appealing as a kick in the nuts.

Yeah, so China basically has a more modern day and capitalist version of the Soviet-Style Socialist regime.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Hardkill

[Soul_Guy]

 

On 12/21/2022 at 4:11 PM, Hardkill said:

Yeah, so China basically has a more modern day and capitalist version of the Soviet-Style Socialist regime.

Yeah, "state capitalism." Great video on the topic:

 

 

China has the government on top, followed by private corporations, followed by the workers.

The US has private corporations on top, followed by the government, followed by the workers.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Soul_Guy