Leo, please elaborate about capitalism and communism

[Recursoinominado]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Who else has told you that you are smokin' socialist crack?

Only every brainwashed capitalist ever.

China is Socialist, just not the socialism you think it should be because you don't know what you are talking about.

China is an undeniable success of socialism and the best people like you can do about it is saying it is not socialist.

You are not being original at all, Leo.

[DocWatts]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Only every brainwashed capitalist ever.

China is Socialist, just not the socialism you think it should be because you don't know what you are talking about.

China is an undeniable success of socialism and the best people like you can do about it is saying it is not socialist.

You are not being original at all, Leo.

China's a hyper-capitalist technocratic authoritarian state, and about as far removed from socialism as the United States was during the Gilded Age when Pinkertons were busting worker's heads open for trying to Unionize.

Calling China a socialist State is frankly an insult to socialism, if socialism is understood as workers having democratic control over their workplaces along with the right to live a life of dignity that's free from exploitation by unaccountable power structures.

The Revolutionary Vanguardism that brought the 20th century communist parties into power was frankly a betrayal of the democratic spirit of socialism.

That said, one can give the CCCP due credit for lifting hundred of millions of people out of poverty without conflating thier system with socialism.

Edited December 16, 2022 by DocWatts

[RareGodzilla]

 

3 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

China's a hyper-capitalist technocratic authoritarian state, and about as far removed from socialism as the United States was during the Gilded Age when Pinkertons were busting worker's heads open for trying to Unionize.

Calling China a socialist State is frankly an insult to socialism, if socialism is understood as workers having democratic control over the means of production.

The Revolutionary Vanguardism that brought the 20th century communist parties into power was frankly a betrayal of the democratic spirit of socialism.

That said, one can give the CCCP due credit for lifting hundred of millions of people out of poverty without conflating thier system with socialism.

I really recommend the book Governance of China by Xi Jinping. There's even an amateur audiobook on YT. To sum it up, the problem with socialism is that neither Russia nor China were actually ready for it's implementation. Marx envisioned socialism to be a step after capitalism. Historic irony is that socialist revolutions succeeded only in places with mostly feudal economy. Hence socialism had to be built up form from scratch. The economy of USSR wasn't truly socialist. The definition of socialism is the ownership by the workers. In the USSR no factory had direct worker ownership, they were all state owned. The proper term for their economy is state capitalism.  Because the capital was owned by the state, which however can be controlled by the people via the democratic process. 

The Xi Jinping model is a continuation of Deng's reforms. The idea that if you let private capital build up the productive forces, instead of the state itself. However, at the same time, that private capital is to be under firm control of the party. Making it that once the conditions are in place the state can make the transition towards more socialized economy.

I can't say weather it will work or not, but like with anything is this world, demonization usually doesn't pay off in terms of truth.

 

I would also point out that despite Leo being really fucking smart, he still has an ego and some degree of bias. He's living the American dream; he has his own business. He’s truly free since he’s not forced to have a job like us wagies. It’s fair to say that his awareness of his own bias is higher than most of us here. But I think it’s fair to say he’s beyond bias.

 

 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

16 hours ago, Vladz0r said:

I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just paused video at 0:21 that airports architecture looks like a beehive.

[Leo Gura]

If China is socialist, socialism is def evil. Lolz

Edited December 16, 2022 by Leo Gura

[IAmReallyImportant]

The current US government wants to etablish Marxism or is already doing it.

[DocWatts]

16 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

The current US government wants to etablish Marxism or is already doing it.

Sometimes all you can do is post a Picard face palm meme to certain comments...

Edited December 16, 2022 by DocWatts

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

The current US government wants to etablish Marxism or is already doing it.

If you keep posting nonsense like this you will be banned.

[Hello from Russia]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If China is socialist, socialism is def evil. Lolz

In our country people say we have better democracy than the West 

[A_v_E]

@IAmReallyImportant ho no please, god no, not this again.

 

 

 

upgrade your metaphysics, please

[IAmReallyImportant]

You are funny  

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

Discussing with political fundamentalists doesn't work out it seems.

[dualnon]

Following from the idea that Socialism would be the evolutionary result of overcoming the limits of capitalism just as capitalism evolved out of feudalism. Is there much value to the idea that progressivism will eventually result in a kind of socialist-esque society? So long as we keep pushing forward and addressing oppressive systemic issues? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Edited December 16, 2022 by dualnon
Using more clear language

[Vladz0r]

7 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

Only every brainwashed capitalist ever.

China is Socialist, just not the socialism you think it should be because you don't know what you are talking about.

China is an undeniable success of socialism and the best people like you can do about it is saying it is not socialist.

You are not being original at all, Leo.

 

China is authoritarian when you pay 140RMB to travel across the length of the entire continental US, and 2-3RMB  ($0.40) to take high speed transit.

Freedumb (Freedom) is when it costs 2 days of your monthly salary just to commute to work.

Authoritarian is when trains, never forget it.

Also, gotta love those mandatory paid vacation days in China, and the mandatory social security, and the mandatory lower tax rates than the US lol

Authoritarianism truly is hell.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Vladz0r

[Oeaohoo]

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

Discussing with political fundamentalists doesn't work out it seems.

Exactly.

[How to be wise]

@IAmReallyImportant Something tells me you’ll be banned very soon. 

[Oeaohoo]

6 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@IAmReallyImportant Something tells me you’ll be banned very soon. 

It must be the mystical power of prophecy you have developed from watching all that Byron Katie!

[How to be wise]

10 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

It must be the mystical power of prophecy you have developed from watching all that Byron Katie!

I don’t need my mystical powers to see something this obvious. 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Vladz0r said:

China is authoritarian when you pay 140RMB to travel across the length of the entire continental US, and 2-3RMB  ($0.40) to take high speed transit.

Freedumb (Freedom) is when it costs 2 days of your monthly salary just to commute to work.

Authoritarian is when trains, never forget it.

Also, gotta love those mandatory paid vacation days in China, and the mandatory social security, and the mandatory lower tax rates than the US lol

Authoritarianism truly is hell.

Nothing quite screams socialism like thousands of minorities locked up in concentration camps.

Ah, just like the good ol days. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nothing quite screams socialism like thousands of minorities locked up in concentration games.

Ah, just like the good ol days. The more things change the more they stay the same.

You know, if China ever established a democracy in their country, then I wonder if China would in that case one become the first country with Democratic Socialism. 

There economy seems to be working well and in some ways is better than ours. So, imagine if decades from now, the country granted the same kinds of social freedom and social equality that US government has given for every American .

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hardkill