Set children free

[John Paul]

Children and the youth are oppressed culturally and that translates to them being oppressed legally. What if there was a society in a country with the infrastructure of the USA for example where children could choose to be adults and just be labeled as “puberty status”. They get to choose their own education or job etc. I think this would be a game changer if it was stage green USA going toward yellow because I think the reason many children are the way they are is because of how they were oppressed by their parents and how their parents were culturally and legally empowered to do so.

and just imagine if this did happen… people wouldn’t call them “puberty status” they’d probably scoff and say “puberty status? That’s just a stupid kid” behind the person’s back the way a modern racist would call a black person a n*****
 

save the children, save the world 

Edited December 14, 2022 by John Paul

[aurum]

@John Paul children are mostly treated like children because they have the development of children.

What is oppressive for an adult might actually be reasonable for a child. Standards are rightfully different.

Of course some children are actually more mature than adults. It’s a nuanced issue. But generally it’s right to assume that what is appropriate for an adult may not be appropriate for a child.

[John Paul]

@aurum some adults have what you think is the development of children. It depends what culture the child grows up in and under who’s roof and then who they meet in adolescence and the choices they make from there. Let’s empower their choice-making earlier.

[How to be wise]

@John Paul Oppressing the kids and setting them free aren’t the only options. Educating them about higher consciousness is the most important thing. Of course treating them well is also important. But treating them as fully grown adults might be a step too far. 

[John Paul]

@How to be wise

with puberty status we can have rules: no guns, no drugs, obvious shit like that. Just give them the option to go get whatever education they choose or whatever job they choose.

the best way to teach is through example- love is absolute indifference so why not embody that by respecting their sovereignty 

Edited December 14, 2022 by John Paul

[aurum]

17 hours ago, John Paul said:

@aurum some adults have what you think is the development of children. It depends what culture the child grows up in and under who’s roof and then who they meet in adolescence and the choices they make from there. Let’s empower their choice-making earlier.

Of course some adults have low levels of development. But generally speaking, adults will have more development than children. They’ve lived longer and their psyche has had more time and experience to evolve.

Children can be empowered, but only to a degree. And the degree they should be empowered needs to be correlated to their level of development. Which in most cases is quite low. Otherwise you will create more problems in the child’s life.

I’ve noticed that people at a Stage Green level of consciousness want to try and treat children like adults. Possibly because their childhood was genuinely oppressive at times. But they swing the pendulum too far and forget about the importance of being the adult in the room.

Edited December 15, 2022 by aurum

[John Paul]

24 minutes ago, aurum said:

Of course some adults have low levels of development. But generally speaking, adults will have more development than children. They’ve lived longer and their psyche has had more time and experience to evolve.

Children can be empowered, but only to a degree. And the degree should be empowered needs to be correlated to their level of development. Which in most cases in quite low. Otherwise you will create more problems in the child’s life.

I’ve noticed that people at a Stage Green level of consciousness want to try and children like adults. Probably because their childhood was genuinely oppressive at times. But they swing the pendulum too far and forget about the importance of being the adult in the room.

At what age does a child’s development meet their parents allowing them to decide for themselves what they want to do with their lives?

also take a look at children when they get to college age. Many become drug addicts, are on anti-depressants, have intimacy issues etc, it’s a fucking joke

[Kksd74628]

@John Paul

You're focusing to the wrong aspect of the puzzle. The problem isn't that children aren't labeled as adults, but that parents don't have conscious conversations with their children to find out what they truly want and support them on their journey. Children/teens shouldn't have the same rights as adults have, because the obvious developmental difference. To someone to truly be responsible of their life and choices one needs to be in certain developmental stage. So we need to focus getting our parenting to the better level so it is more interactive and the leading is explained to the child/teen in a way they understand that it is for their own benefit. Critique from children should also be appreciated for better leading.

Possible counter-argument.

People aren't the same so it is unfair to set specific age which people can't control to be measurement for being adult.

1) If we want to use some non-age measurement to find out if you are mature enough, then you need to suggest one that is somehow cheap, easy and precise. Otherwise it would just cause more inequality.

2) People in very young age are very sensitive so how one could possibly explain to someone that why they aren't in the same "level" as their peers.

3) How you stop people from harassing those people who develop slower?

Before at least all of those 3 things are explained well, I am standing for you get adult privileges only when you're 18.

Welcome to challenge my perspective though. That would be fun.

-joNi-

[aurum]

5 hours ago, John Paul said:

At what age does a child’s development meet their parents allowing them to decide for themselves what they want to do with their lives?

There is no magic answer here. You have to deal with your unique child and the context of the situation.

Also notice that even adults have rules they're expected to follow. Some of them formal legal laws, some of them informal social norms. Even this forum has rules. You never get to just do whatever you want.

While this could become oppressive when taken to an extreme, it is not inherently so. This is how it should be.

5 hours ago, John Paul said:

also take a look at children when they get to college age. Many become drug addicts, are on anti-depressants, have intimacy issues etc, it’s a fucking joke

That's true. But consider that's not because children are so "oppressed" when they are younger. Consider that part of that may be because they actually didn't receive sufficient boundaries, guidance and appropriate responsibility when they were younger.

Regardless, such a phenomenon is complex and multi-faceted.

Edited December 15, 2022 by aurum

[John Paul]

6 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@John Paul

You're focusing to the wrong aspect of the puzzle. The problem isn't that children aren't labeled as adults, but that parents don't have conscious conversations with their children to find out what they truly want and support them on their journey. Children/teens shouldn't have the same rights as adults have, because the obvious developmental difference. To someone to truly be responsible of their life and choices one needs to be in certain developmental stage. So we need to focus getting our parenting to the better level so it is more interactive and the leading is explained to the child/teen in a way they understand that it is for their own benefit. Critique from children should also be appreciated for better leading.

Possible counter-argument.

People aren't the same so it is unfair to set specific age which people can't control to be measurement for being adult.

1) If we want to use some non-age measurement to find out if you are mature enough, then you need to suggest one that is somehow cheap, easy and precise. Otherwise it would just cause more inequality.

2) People in very young age are very sensitive so how one could possibly explain to someone that why they aren't in the same "level" as their peers.

3) How you stop people from harassing those people who develop slower?

Before at least all of those 3 things are explained well, I am standing for you get adult privileges only when you're 18.

Welcome to challenge my perspective though. That would be fun.

-joNi-

What is more realistic: forcing all parents to follow some parent mandate and enforcing said mandate or just simply giving young people far more choices- the ability to join a paid job-training force etc. and the option to quit and return home (the details need to be worked out of course so the system can’t be abused by the young people)

[John Paul]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

There is no magic answer here. You have to deal with your unique child and the context of the situation.

Also notice that even adults have rules they're expected to follow. Some of them formal legal laws, some of them informal social norms.

What if the context of the situation is the child’s level of spiral and spiritual development passes the parents at age 14.5… would you have them bossed around and the cops called on them and them not being able to earn their money for 3 and a half more years just for shits and giggles?

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, John Paul said:

What if the context of the situation is the child’s level of spiral and spiritual development passes the parents at age 14.5… would you have them bossed around and the cops called on them and them not being able to earn their money for 3 and a half more years just for shits and giggles?

That is clearly not what I'm suggesting. Don't strawman my argument.

[Kksd74628]

@John Paul

8 minutes ago, John Paul said:

forcing all parents to follow some parent mandate and enforcing said mandate

How would the mandate be like?

9 minutes ago, John Paul said:

the ability to join a paid job-training force

Aren't people under 18 yo allowed to work in usa. WDYM?

7 minutes ago, John Paul said:

What if the context of the situation is the child’s level of spiral and spiritual development passes the parents at age 14.5

Usually children pass their parents' development and that's how it should be in order to move forward in evolution. Pretty rarely under 18 year old is wise enough to be fully responsible for their life and that's why they live with their parents and listen to them. Also usually in that teen age people start to challenge their parents at wrong things so how could we distinguish that from good criticism. Oh wait that's where conscious conversation between parents and their children come into play.

[John Paul]

2 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Also usually in that teen age people start to challenge their parents at wrong things so how could we distinguish that from good criticism.

We let them put their money where their mouth is and go out into the real world with all of their creative power and freedom and dignity and see where they’re right and wrong. 

[Kksd74628]

@John Paul

2 minutes ago, John Paul said:

We let them put their money where their mouth is and go out into the real world with all of their creative power and freedom and dignity and see where they’re right and wrong. 

That's just not practical to do in a big picture. Generally living with your parents till 18 yo is good. You could very easily fuck up your health, financial situation and mental health if your parents didn't guide and protect you. As I said: "Pretty rarely under 18 year old is wise enough to be fully responsible for their life and that's why they live with their parents and listen to them."

Also you forgot to respond to these questions.

1)

10 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

How would the mandate be like?

2)

10 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Aren't people under 18 yo allowed to work in usa. WDYM?

 

[John Paul]

@Kksd74628 I was referring to how you’d mandate “more conscious parenting” or whatever you suggested rather than my suggestion to free up the youth. I was implying that it’s impossible. Parents have some of the biggest egos around.

yes. Children under 18 can work. But how will they get hired without their diploma? And with no experience or ability to get a job without a diploma how could they possibly afford a used car to get transportation to better opportunities than the McDonald’s down the street… do you see the oppression yet?

 

also you are extremely naive about parent “guidance and protection” we have alcoholics raising kids, people who abuse medications raising kids, people smoking in the house, taking their kids through McDonald’s, abusing the government and neglecting their kids, forcing their kids to go to church or to watch Fox News the list goes on and on my friend 

[Kksd74628]

@John Paul

4 minutes ago, John Paul said:

I was referring to how you’d mandate “more conscious parenting” or whatever you suggested rather than my suggestion to free up the youth.

Yeah I guess I read what you said about mandate wrongly. Sorry about that.

9 minutes ago, John Paul said:

Parents have some of the biggest egos around.

All people have big egos and I'd argue that there are bigger egos as bosses for some corporation or something like that. The ego problem is gradually getting better as our society evolves and as I said the only way to fix that problem is having better raising which includes conscious conversations. If you let your childrens do whatever they want then the information gained from the parents and their parents etc. would be lost.

5 minutes ago, John Paul said:

But how will they get hired without their diploma? And with no experience or ability to get a job without a diploma how could they possibly afford a used car to get transportation to better opportunities than the McDonald’s down the street… do you see the oppression yet?

I don't get why you should even have "better" job than McDonald's at the age under 18. You should be studying, planning your life and enjoying the youth as you have time, energy and parents who give you housing, food and advices for free.

11 minutes ago, John Paul said:

also you are extremely naive about parent “guidance and protection” we have alcoholics raising kids, people who abuse medications raising kids, people smoking in the house, taking their kids through McDonald’s, abusing the government and neglecting their kids, forcing their kids to go to church or to watch Fox News the list goes on and on my friend 

That's just another topic and we shouldn't go to that before understanding the previous topic we still have open.

[John Paul]

@blueberries yes, financial independence is very important. There are countless 23 year olds moving back home after college to live with their parents who are controlling, science-dogmatic, SD orange folk. How would that 23 y/o compare to a kid who moved out at 14, worked a couple months, moved states, tried to become a musician while working for four years, decided to go to trade school at 18 for carpentry etc…. Imagine the drastic difference in self-esteem knowing how many choices he made for himself without being talked down to from mom and dad.

[Leo Gura]

It would be nice to have a sort of maturity exam which detemrines when you officially become "an adult". For some it would happen at 16, for others it would happen at 35.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Leo Gura

[John Paul]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It would be nice to have a sort of maturity exam which detemrines when you official become an adult. For some it would happen at 16, for others it would happen at 35.

Haha that would be great!! As long as it was legit and the answers were never leaked etc.