Have you notice there are no outsides or insides in reality?

[Javfly33]

"inside" and "outside" are mere ideas in your mind, they do not exist in actual reality. 

Look at your body, your feeling of "I", a wall, a chair, a person. A dog. Be very careful and be aware how your mind subconsciously says that those things are "outside of you". 

Look for what is real. Actual direct perception knows no concepts or "inside" or "outside". Destroy these concepts, see them for what they are: another bullshit of the mind

Everything that is stopping self-realization its just all those wicked insane ideas inside the mind. 

[Breakingthewall]

it is an incomprehensible matter. reality is your direct experience. there's no more. infinity is creating layers and layers of perception building this fluid now. It is not that behind this appearance is the infinite, it is that it is the infinite. with a strong enough 5 meo hit you can see how the layers refer until there is nothing left, the limitless. It is the same as now only removing the appearance of something limited. and yet....the other beings that appear in your pov seem to have their own pov outside of yours. They have it and they don't, just like your pov is static and at the same time changing.

there is something I am missing in this. Leo, when he talks about solipsism he doesn't speak clearly either. does he really understand? it's understandable? he says, your pov is absolute, outside of your pov there is nothing. If I tell you: only your pov exists, saying that from my pov... what the hell am I trying to express?

Edited December 12, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Kamo]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 If I tell you: only your pov exists, saying that from my pov... what the hell am I trying to express?

@Breakingthewall Yeah I also contemplated this, when you hear another pov say this, it seems like it becomes immediately invalid because I am listening to that from my own pov, which I am directly validating? There can only be a subjective self validating it to itself, so the need to even tell anyone should fall off id think? 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Kamo said:

@Breakingthewall Yeah I also contemplated this, when you hear another pov say this, it seems like it becomes immediately invalid because I am listening to that from my own pov, which I am directly validating? There can only be a subjective self validating it to itself, so the need to even tell anyone should fall off id think? 

really, my pov is absolute in the sense that i can never experience anything other than my pov. If I experience your pov, it will become my pov. If I simultaneously experience infinite povs, this will be my pov. so, outside of my pov there is nothing. there can't be! If there was, it would be my pov. but inside my pov, is the idea of your pov. it is just an idea, a perception within all my perceptions. Does this mean that your pov is not real? No, it just means that for me, your pov is an idea, nothing more. I really believe that it is real, that there is an experience like mine behind your face, but all this is just ideas, constructions inside my pov. what is real is the present moment. your pov is just an element within that present. impossible to verify. What means that? I don't know. And really i shouldn't care. The present moment is, and that's it

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall I think Leo meant your POV as god is all there is. Because with you he doesnt mean the human pov.and god =everything =every pov simultaneously 

Difficult what leo really wanted to say. I think he is right, you cannot understand this intellectual 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by OBEler

[Kamo]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

really, my pov is absolute in the sense that i can never experience anything other than my pov. If I experience your pov, it will become my pov. If I simultaneously experience infinite povs, this will be my pov. so, outside of my pov there is nothing. there can't be! If there was, it would be my pov. but inside my pov, is the idea of your pov. it is just an idea, a perception within all my perceptions. Does this mean that your pov is not real? No, it just means that for me, your pov is an idea, nothing more. I really believe that it is real, that there is an experience like mine behind your face, but all this is just ideas, constructions inside my pov. what is real is the present moment. your pov is just an element within that present. impossible to verify. What means that? I don't know. And really i shouldn't care. The present moment is, and that's it

Yeah I agree completely. Thats how I was able to make sense of it as well.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, OBEler said:

@Breakingthewall I think Leo meant your POV as god is all there is. Because with you he doesnt mean the human pov.and god =everything =every pov simultaneously 

 

the god pov is the human pov. reality is an infinite mind that is creating layers and layers of reality to manifest this exact present moment, and there can be nothing outside of it. I have seen it with absolute clarity. without going any further, yesterday. it is incomprehensible madness. cannot be understood literally. It's like understanding the seventh dimension being a three-dimensional being. you can not. 

[michaelcycle00]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the god pov is the human pov. reality is an infinite mind that is creating layers and layers of reality to manifest this exact present moment, and there can be nothing outside of it. I have seen it with absolute clarity. without going any further, yesterday. it is incomprehensible madness. cannot be understood literally. It's like understanding the seventh dimension being a three-dimensional being. you can not. 

But I am literally aware right now and reading your post, so where does that leave us?

@puporing told me I am both sovereign currently and not alone. She said it’s a paradox but honestly I’m not even entirely sure this is it. And you’ll see why in my response to @OBEler below. 

You’re saying you saw this with absolute clarity but you’re still here posting on this forum… it couldn’t have been that clear.

[michaelcycle00]

3 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Breakingthewall I think Leo meant your POV as god is all there is. Because with you he doesnt mean the human pov.and god =everything =every pov simultaneously 

Difficult what leo really wanted to say. I think he is right, you cannot understand this intellectual 

 

He didn’t say that. I watched his Solipsism video like 2 weeks ago (the one he deleted). 

Nothing he said was left up for interpretation. He very clearly said that only “my” direct experience exists and that there’s nothing more. Whatever I’m aware of IS IT and that’s where reality starts and ends. He said he had no POV himself, that I’m imagining he does and I’m imagining that he’s tripping and having awakenings just to show myself what I can do. He said there’s not multiple people in the world having awakenings, he said there’s only one person in the world who could awaken and that is me. 
 

I’m not sure if I believe him, if I really wanted to awaken like that I think I would’ve made the video a lot more personal. To be honest this paradox thing may be worth contemplating a little more. I will be dissecting his video and making a post about it here soon. 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

But I am literally aware right now and reading your post, so where does that leave us?

@puporing told me I am both sovereign currently and not alone. She said it’s a paradox but honestly I’m not even entirely sure this is it. And you’ll see why in my response to @OBEler below. 

You’re saying you saw this with absolute clarity but you’re still here posting on this forum… it couldn’t have been that clear.

 Let's see, if at any moment you realize the infinite, that reality is an infinite mind creating this appearance, the logical consequence that follows is that there can be nothing outside of it, because the infinity has not outside, by definition. Besides, it's obvious that for you your pov is absolute. you can't get out of your pov. it is impossible. your pov is all there is. anything else you imagine exists is just an idea within your pov. Leo talking about psychedelics is just one more note in your pov. What I believe (and this is only a belief within my pov) is that everything inside my pov has its own pov since infinity has the ability to divide itself infinitely many times while always being the same infinity. this is not understandable from an apparently finite pov, like any other feature of infinity. but this is just my belief, which I can't prove

[OBEler]

5 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Nothing he said was left up for interpretation. He very clearly said that only “my” direct experience exists and that there’s nothing more. Whatever I’m aware of IS IT and that’s where reality starts and ends. He said he had no POV himself, that I’m imagining he does and I’m imagining that he’s tripping and having awakenings just to show myself what I can do. 

He was not very clearly,mixing human pov with God pov. 

Yeah Leo has no POV. But the thing is, the human you who read this also has no POV. 

But then again. There is no difference between pov and no POV. 

I think intellectual it is impossible to understand what he means. Too many paradoxes

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by OBEler

[Javfly33]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

there is something I am missing in this. Leo, when he talks about solipsism he doesn't speak clearly either. does he really understand? it's understandable? he says, your pov is absolute, outside of your pov there is nothing. If I tell you: only your pov exists, saying that from my pov... what the hell am I trying to express?

I think the words its what makes it impossible to really grasp. Since words are dualistic and dualism its false and a mind-virus, it doesn't make sense logically. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

I think the words its what makes it impossible to really grasp. Since words are dualistic and dualism its false and a mind-virus, it doesn't make sense logically. 

well, but many people listen to leo and he is a pioneer in explaining these matters, and as @michaelcycle00 says, in the solipsism video it is clearly and unambiguously explained: your pov is the absolute. nothing exists outside of your pov. and that's it. Let's see, explaining this from your pov to another pov already includes a nuance in the explanation, right? I'm sure it can be explained more accurately. that explanation is insufficient. And if you rebut, the answer is: you're asleep, wake up and you'll understand... and then parrots appear around saying that they understand because they need the qualification: awake. Are we trying to go deep and understand, or clowning around and sticking out our chests like high school peacocks? I wonder sometimes. enough with that bullshit imo. honesty and go ahead.

 

[michaelcycle00]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 Let's see, if at any moment you realize the infinite, that reality is an infinite mind creating this appearance, the logical consequence that follows is that there can be nothing outside of it, because the infinity has not outside, by definition. Besides, it's obvious that for you your pov is absolute. you can't get out of your pov. it is impossible. your pov is all there is. anything else you imagine exists is just an idea within your pov. Leo talking about psychedelics is just one more note in your pov. What I believe (and this is only a belief within my pov) is that everything inside my pov has its own pov since infinity has the ability to divide itself infinitely many times while always being the same infinity. this is not understandable from an apparently finite pov, like any other feature of infinity. but this is just my belief, which I can't prove

I mean this is about the most simplistic and beginner-friendly explanation there is in spiritual circles. "God divided itself and we are it; we are a drop in the ocean, a leaf in a tree". The problem starts when you add in stuff like time, manifestation, law of attraction, shifting realities, the observer effect, quantum superposition, etc. It doesn't explain any of that and even contradicts it. To be more precise, no matter what road I take intellectually to try to understand Solipsism, I always stumble upon a goddamned paradox.

 

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

He was not very clearly,mixing human pov with God pov. 

Yeah Leo has no POV. But the thing is, the human you who read this also has no POV. 

But then again. There is no difference between pov and no POV. 

I think intellectual it is impossible to understand what he means. Too many paradoxes

 

No dude I'm telling you he was extremely clear. He gave various examples. He literally said whatever I can see, hear, feel, smell and touch is the entirety of reality. There's nothing behind the scenes or happening that I'm not aware of.

But yeah, too many paradoxes indeed. 

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall nothing exist outside your POV because in your POV is every other pov already included because all there is infinity. Where ever I experience something, it is infinite so there is everything in it, every pov so you can say your POV is all there is) including mine) 

Thats how I understand. 

 

For example If my only sense is to smell the toilet then this smell is still infinite. And infinite means there is everything in it. That create a  Strange loop, which means it also must include my body.  It is just the smell you could say. And nothing else exist. Because the smell is infinite and there exist nothing outside of infinity. 

I talk in circles. Too much paradox to understand intellectual, better take 5 meo an experience it

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by OBEler

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Breakingthewall nothing exist outside your POV because in your POV is every other pov already included because all there is infinity. Where ever I experience something, it is infinite so there is everything in it, every pov so you can say your POV is all there is) including mine) 

Thats how I understand. 

 

For example If my only sense is to smell the toilet then this smell is still infinite. And infinite means there is everything in it. That create a  Strange loop, which means it also must include my body.  It is just the smell you could say. And nothing else exist. Because the smell is infinite and there exist nothing outside of infinity 

Too much paradox to understand 

 

 

The reality is that we know little about the mechanics of infinity. It would be said that infinity is relative and absolute at the same time. that is the incomprehensible paradox. so leo's video on solipsism is right and wrong at the same time

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

well, but many people listen to leo and he is a pioneer in explaining these matters, and as @michaelcycle00 says, in the solipsism video it is clearly and unambiguously explained: your pov is the absolute. nothing exists outside of your pov. and that's it. Let's see, explaining this from your pov to another pov already includes a nuance in the explanation, right? I'm sure it can be explained more accurately. that explanation is insufficient. And if you rebut, the answer is: you're asleep, wake up and you'll understand... and then parrots appear around saying that they understand because they need the qualification: awake. Are we trying to go deep and understand, or clowning around and sticking out our chests like high school peacocks? I wonder sometimes. enough with that bullshit imo. honesty and go ahead.

 

Well I can't talk for Leo because I am not sure what his motivations are for saying this kind of stuff, I hope its not just thoughts for him and there's some actual direct experience, but for other people they shouldn't take any teaching as Truth because any teaching are just words concepts no matter how beautiful the teaching is.

I see the teaching as a motivation for the seeker, if it makes him think and become curious, passionate, etc...about what might discover, then Leo is not doing something wrong. He's just inspiring people. But most people just take teaching as truth, trying to intellectually grasp it. So people just want answers to fit their limited perspective, not Truth, we already seen this a lot of times. Truth interested people, very little unfortunately. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Well I can't talk for Leo because I am not sure what his motivations are for saying this kind of stuff, I hope its not just thoughts for him and there's some actual direct experience,

I guess he said that for two reasons. first because it is somehow true. only direct experience is real. you cannot get out of your direct experience, therefore your direct experience is absolute.

and second, because understanding this intellectually helps liberation since it creates a mental configuration of unity, against the common idea of seeing yourself as a part of something larger and alien to you. if you want to prepare the ground for the total dissolution of the ego, realizing that others are only a component of your direct experience, which is the absolute, helps a lot in the detachment that is needed

 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I guess he said that for two reasons. first because it is somehow true. only direct experience is real. you cannot get out of your direct experience, therefore your direct experience is absolute.

and second, because understanding this intellectually helps liberation since it creates a mental configuration of unity, against the common idea of seeing yourself as a part of something larger and alien to you. if you want to prepare the ground for the total dissolution of the ego, realizing that others are only a component of your direct experience, which is the absolute, helps a lot in the detachment that is needed

 

I guess you refer to the fact that its definitely very smart to imagine such a thing as a Leo Gura talking about solipsism and being God, so then when you accept the Truth of yourself, you can see how all of those of the videos you imagined helped you in slowly letting in your mind the possibility that you were alone ?

It makes sense, but at the same time, it also smells of ego-refined delusion. 

If enough psychedelic trips and spiritual experiences have taught me anything is that it's so easy to get deluded thinking you "got it" when it fact, its just another mind story.

Even in psychedelic peak highest times, the peak its the peak and the bliss is the bliss precisely because there is "no one" in my mind saying "hey, I got it! I am alone! I am God! This is so good! Oh my god its so beautiful!"

Usually when those words and "conclusions" start to pop up, then the atmosphere it's not anymore blissful, free, and light as it was when there were silence and no conclusions.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

guess you refer to the fact that its definitely very smart to imagine such a thing as a Leo Gura talking about solipsism and being God, so then when you accept the Truth of yourself, you can see how all of those of the videos you imagined helped you in slowly letting in your mind the possibility that you were alone ?

No, i mean in the purely relative sense. I don't mix the relative with the absolute nor do I draw conclusions like: I invented Leo for... I think that's a mistake. I have seen how the relative is created, how the structure that is my body is being created, and everything else, and I have realized that my pov is the total absolute. but I don't understand how, why, nor do I pretend to. I have seen that everything is exactly as it has to be. so for me the job is to let go and let's say, unite the absolute and the relative as much as possible. let the absolute do what it has to do. I'm working on a total ego dissolution with 5meo plugged. I have already done vaping several times but it is very different, as if it were another psychedelic. plugged you see how all the structures are crumbling, like your primordial attachment, your body resists. with 27 mg the dissolution is not complete yet. instead vaped is from 0 to 100 in a second. Now I'm here, suddenly, the void. By plugging I have come to the conclusion that Leo maybe is right: no one has gone as deep as him. nobody does serious work with 5 meo plugged until the total dissolution. It's almost impossible to reach this point just by meditation, it's another level. But after that, everyone reach his own relative conclusion, and i find those of Leo bit confusing 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Breakingthewall