Undeveloped People Doing 5MEO

[BlessedLion]

I have a genuine question and I’d love to hear what you guys think;

 

Ive met many people who take and administer Bufo (natural form of 5 MEO) and they are not impressive at all. In fact, many of them are totally dysfunctional, anxious, and just plain dark people. I wouldn’t trust these people with literally anything better yet let them administer Bufo on me. 
 

Some of these people have also done multiple silent retreats and years of yoga along with reading profound spiritual teachings 
 

Is there some people who just don’t “get it?” And never will? 
 

I’ve never done Bufo, but if it really launches you into directly meeting God, wouldn’t that like a change a person and make them more conscious and less miserable? 
 

Is it because they don’t have the theory/foundation? 
 

In their defense I have no idea what they were like before, but they are extremely petty and attached where they are now. 
 

Im really curious about this because many people seem to be checking all the boxes but don’t actually develop or grow or change in any significant way and they seem to be really trying. 

[BlessedLion]

I’m also curious if it’s an issue of purity of substance 

[BipolarGrowth]

I’d imagine it works quite similar to how any other psychedelic affects someone with a strong foundation vs. a complete noob with no practice history. There are still plenty of people watching cartoons on LSD getting pretty much nothing out of it. 5 MeO is probably going to skew a bit more in the spiritual direction even for the uninitiated due to its potency, but I’m sure there are ways to not get nearly as much out of it as one could. 

[Leo Gura]

Keep in mind that many people drawn to Bufo are drug addicts and really traumatized stage Red people, like Mike Tyson. So of course Bufo will not make them instantly actualized. They will need 10-20 years of additional serious work. Drug addicts have some of the lowest development levels. And also many people drawn to Bufo are coming at it with stage Purple cultural programming, which what a lot of native shaman are. Don't expect those shaman to have the kind of understanding we talk about on Actualized.

Bufo will not change your fundamental human habits. If only it were so easy.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Leo Gura

[ZenSwift]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Bufo will not change your fundamental human habits. If only it were so easy.

I've been developing a small belief that the baseline awareness/consciousness that is raised from using 5meo will naturally make you run higher consciousness habits and aid in seeing the stupidity of your ignorant ways. Am I wrong? Wouldn't it make a little bit of difference with things such as handling vices and whatnot? @Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

I've been developing a small belief that the baseline awareness/consciousness that is raised from using 5meo will naturally make you run higher consciousness habits and aid in seeing the stupidity of your ignorant ways. Am I wrong? Wouldn't it make a little bit of difference with things such as handling vices and whatnot? @Leo Gura

Of course there is some loose correlation, but it is very loose. Nothing is guaranteed. In fact you could have an ego-backlash and even regress.

As a general rule of thumb you should assume that you will have to work to eliminate every bad habit.

I have done a LOT of psychedelics, and it has not eliminated by internet addiction or sugar cravings. Any improvements I want to make to my human life require deliberate effort.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

 

I’ve never done Bufo, but if it really launches you into directly meeting God, wouldn’t that like a change a person and make them more conscious and less miserable? 
 

 

Psychedelics don't magically change people.

It's like therapy or any type of coaching (although way more intense and effective): If the person doesn't want to change, nothing happens. If it takes it in a point on its life where it wants to change, the psychedelic will speed things up a lot.

Keep in mind that many people drawn to Bufo are drug addicts and really traumatized stage Red people, like Mike Tyson. So of course Bufo will not make them instantly actualized. They will need 10-20 years of additional serious work. Drug addicts have some of the lowest development levels. And also many people drawn to Bufo are coming at it with stage Purple cultural programming, which what a lot of native shaman are. Don't expect those shaman to have the kind of understanding we talk about on Actualized.

Bufo will not change your fundamental human habits. If only it were so easy.

@Leo Gura I think that's a gross simplification. There are many individuals drug addicts that are intellectuals or in higher work status positions than even non-drug addicts.

But I get what you mean, I´ve been on a couple of 5-MeO retreats and there were definitely people like the OP talks about, ex-drug addicts that carried quite an obscure aura within them. Indeed they usually have quite a lot of Red-stage habits such as extreme selfishness and manipulation techniques. @BlessedLion This people usually are not in a surrendered-open state to receive the most psychedelic benefits. They're expecting a magic pill to solve their problems.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Javfly33

[Starlight321]

I think if they are in the wrong conditions their negative programming aka trauma gets always triggerred and addiotional bad habit, then it's hard to developed yourself. Also if you supress it you might  do that during a trip too and you get nothing out of it. 

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura by the way I recommend quitting your shugar Addiction with erythrit. It's a healthy shugar Substitution with low side effects. 

It's healthy for the body and your tounge will be resetted and not Touch sweet things again if you just use this for long periode of time because normal sweet stuff will be too much shugar for you with your new developed tounge. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by OBEler

[Thought Art]

Tripping, meditation and things like yoga need to be balanced with:

1. Taking action on your relationships, career and basic habits

2. Western Psychological work such as talk therapy, cognitive behavioural therapy etc

Bufo does not cure depression. I can help, and be part of the process but it’s not enough. 
 

I think if you aren’t journaling, getting some kinds of talk therapy, and taking action.. yeah. 
 

I personally found mushrooms more effective for depression than 5meo
 

I have had deep anxiety, depression and things like suicidal thoughts from a young age. However, I have found that this work it working. But it needs to be done in balance. It does take years. There really are no magic pills. I have small set backs now and then… as these neural pathways and cognitive habits are still there. But, usually a good Qigong routine, journaling and getting some sleep straighten me out.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

many people have an ego that suffers and seeks solutions. few can function truly independently. Mostly need a guide for everything, well-trodden paths. These people go to a shaman to solve their lives by giving them a magic pill. Obviously this doesn't work, it's very childish to think like that. then they need to go through life with the gallons of enlightenment, which is becoming the new fashion in some circles . What is cooler than being enlightened? something so difficult, that only one in 25 million can! better than being a millionaire! They go to Vipassana, bufo, everything , but nothing is achieved. Until you take responsibility for your life, you'll just walk in circles.

 

[Jodistrict]

Keep in mind that Bufo Alvarius has no shamanic traditions.  It wasn’t used until fairly recently, i.e. the 1960s.  

I agree that the drug addiction thing is something to watch out for.  Consider an alcoholic or drug addict who switches to Ayahuasca.  For a drug addict, it is actually a good move.  Alcohol damages the body over the long-term, whereas Ayahuasca can actually benefit the body.  So it is better to be addicted to Ayahuasca that doesn’t harm the body, with the added benefit that you can claim to be a shaman, which is a better image than “town drunk”. 
 

[Leo Gura]

They don't get addicted to Bufo nor Aya, it's just that it doesn't fix a lifetime of bad habits and lack of development.

Drug addicts are people who are missing 10-20 years of development work.

[Jodistrict]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They don't get addicted to Bufo nor Aya, it's just that it doesn't fix a lifetime of bad habits and lack of development.

Drug addicts are people who are missing 10-20 years of development work.

I know Ayahuasca shamen who were drug addicts and told me that ayahuasca cured their addiction.  They also told me that grandmother Ayahausca actually appeared to them in visions and told them to serve Ayahausca.  They seem pretty developed to me.  But they also are still taking Ayahausca.  I know another shaman who confessed to me that he stopped taking Ayahausca.  He said it’s a medicine and when you don’t need the medicine anymore you stop taking it.  So there are two points of view.  The Ayahausca shaman says that he is taking it as an ongoing relationship.  But this seems to contradict their assertion that it is “medicine”.  Medicine isn’t something you take for the rest of your life.  Like antibiotics, when the infection is over you quit.

[vladorion]

16 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Ive met many people who take and administer Bufo (natural form of 5 MEO) and they are not impressive at all. In fact, many of them are totally dysfunctional, anxious, and just plain dark people. I wouldn’t trust these people with literally anything better yet let them administer Bufo on me. 

It's because they're destroying their system and inflating their ego in the process. 5-meo is not a good medicine although it can feel like one.

I haven't seen a single person who does 5-meo, on video or irl who is impressive. It's actually quite the opposite.

[OBEler]

@vladorion Show me people who really work with 5 meo like Martin ball or Leo gura and arent impressive (at least on a spiritual/energetic level) . 

 

Many people on youtube do 5 meo only a few times (psyched substance, your mate tom and so on) 

Thats nothing. Did you really expect 5 meo transforms you into an impressive Personen in one shot? 

I think 5 meo can give you the full Potential if you combine it with other spiritual practices 

Edited December 12, 2022 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

I'm not saying all of them are undeveloped. I would hope that a shaman has some development.

[vladorion]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

@vladorion Show me people who really work with 5 meo like Martin ball or Leo gura and arent impressive (at least on a spiritual/energetic level) . 

Martin Ball and Leo Gura aren't impressive on a spiritual/energetic level.

There's depth there, but there's also quite a bit of nihilism and a huge spiritual ego. Especially in Leo's case. That's not something to aspire to or to be impressed by.

[Thought Art]

Bufo requires great maturity and patience. It’s so astronomically powerful it’s not ideal for psychological work. It’s like a love sledge hammer. If you are screwing in a lightbulb don’t use a sledge hammer. Use a therapist, a journal and maybe some mushrooms every now and then. 
 

It’s pleasant to walk upon the infinitely safe and beautiful ground of the “Infinite Yes” the “Infinite Now” and the infinite “Of course it’s love”…

But, the finite character can only grow so much from that. Other tools in the toolbox are needed.

Tonight I realized I am the absolute. Which was a lot to take in. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

@vladorion My apologies for failing to impress you.