Senator Sinema is no longer a Democrat

[Danioover9000]

@Oeaohoo

1 hour ago, Oeaohoo said:

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that the political revolutionaries of the past century were just straightforward traitors when they betrayed their ideals. One of the reasons that these people were so dangerous is that they were essentially failed artists; art being taken here in a very general sense as the domain of idealism, and politics as the domain of realism. For example, Communism didn’t start from a realistic version of how the world was but with a romantic and poetical vision of how it ought to be. The revolutionaries were able to betray their ideals so frequently because they never really cared about the mundane realities of politics. Any material hypocrisy was warranted so long as it served the cause of the attainment of their ideal world. Of course, in the long run this makes any revolution a sick joke: “In the name of my ideals, I am willing to betray all of my ideals!”

As a failed artist myself, there is a little bit of confession in this analysis…

A true Democrat is a Republican who rocked up to the party a few years early. A true Republican is a Democrat who got lost on the way and arrived a few years late! 

   I agree somewhat, the both of them are failed artists in the technology, economy, social infrastructure and political epoch of their time, mostly a product of the environmental and socio-economic pressures and changes. This is especially true for Hitler, given his earlier grief and dealing with the lose of his older brother, dealing with an overbearing father figure, dealing with the lose of his mother who he could seek emotional shelter and safe haven,, struggling to gain clarity for his passion for design and painting, and surviving WW1 and living the mass consequences of Germany's fallout and very high inflation rates. For a patriot/nationalist, nothing hurts more than seeing your home country humiliated like that. Plus a lost sense of direction opened him up for influence from the Nazi party that recruited him as their front man and speaker.

   Well, you are not the only failed artist. 

[Godhead]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

dealing with the lose of his older brother

As far as I know, Hitler was an infant when his older brother died, I doubt that had any significant effect on him.

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Plus a lost sense of direction opened him up for influence from the Nazi party that recruited him as their front man and speaker.

The Nazi party didn't exist back then. He joined the DAP.

[Leo Gura]

I swear, it's easier to teach a mule arithmetic than to get a progressive to understand a centrist.

You are NOT understanding her! You are strawmanning, demonizing  and projecting your worldview.

I am getting weary of this progressive stupidity.

You are not seeking genuine understanding.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hatfort]

There is the center, and then there is the right. Sinema is on the right.

Perhaps Biden is in the center, it's like the Democrats chose the most acceptable candidate for the right in aesthetics and past politics like the failed war on drugs. Only Bloomberg was worse, who should have been a republican candidate, but maybe he fulfilled the job of making Biden and others look more centrist than they really are. To be fair, Biden is being better than I would have thought, but he has much room left yet.

Sinema and Manchin have the best position in the world to be lobbied. I'd say it's not easy to get there, so my congratulations to them and their interest. They are Troyan horses in the Democratic party working for the Republican-aligned policies. They have my congrats for that and my big despise as well. Not that they care, but all for them.

Sinema was not going to make it in the next primaries. Her best position to continue being funded and lobbied by companies is to face Democrats as an independent next time and maybe divide the vote. That's her last move.

[Leo Gura]

Biden is not in the center. Biden is to the left.

Just because he can't get some things passed due to conservative blockade does not make him center.

Casting Biden as center is really silly. He supports many progressive policies. Of course never enough to satisfy progressives.

If Biden cut off his dick and became a woman in solidarity for trans folk, progressives would still whine that he's not left enough.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hatfort]

Well, I disagree, I think Biden is in the center at most.

But one of the politicians that's blocking him is precisely Sinema.

[Hardkill]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I swear, it's easier to teach a mule arithmetic than to get a progressive to understand a centrist.

You are NOT understanding her! You are strawmanning, demonizing  and projecting your worldview.

I am getting weary of this progressive stupidity.

You are not seeking genuine understanding.

I am all for centrism and centrist to center-left Democrats. In fact, I think that center to center-left Democrats are still the best Democrats overall because they are generally the most electable, most pragmatic, and probably the smartest liberal politicians we have in the country. I also know that we need to keep electing more and more of these Democrats into Congress, into governships, into state legislatures, into attorney general positions, etc. in order to effectively make serious progress for our country. 

But why did Sinema run as more of a progressive or liberal before she became a senator and then turn into more of a moderate conservative like Manchin? 

I still don't get why Mark Kelly is more to the left than she is.

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Biden is not in the center. Biden is to the left.

Just because he can't get some things passed due to conservative blockade does not make him center.

Casting Biden as center is really silly. He supports many progressive policies. Of course never enough to satisfy progressives.

If Biden cut off his dick and became a woman in solidarity for trans folk, progressives would still whine that he's not left enough.

 

3 hours ago, Hatfort said:

Well, I disagree, I think Biden is in the center at most.

But one of the politicians that's blocking him is precisely Sinema.

Biden was originally a very centrist Democrat from Delaware in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Then by the early 2000s, he began to shift more and more to the left. He eventually became the first sitting vice-president to publicly announce his unequivocal support for gay marriage, which then prompted Obama to become the first sitting president to also publicly announce his unequivocal support for gay marriage. I also believe that some of it comes from Biden having always been fundamentally a liberal and a true Democrat along and I think that he has genuinely changed over time into a more compassionate and open-minded person than he was when he was Senator.

Biden has become a center-left Democrat who has evolved into a more liberal politician than he ever was before. A lot of that probably has stemmed from a combination of his days in the Obama Administration, the Democratic party as a whole having kept shifting to the left since the early 2000s, and pressure from the growing faction of progressives.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

I am not saying centrists are good or correct.

I am saying they need to be understood.

You can understand a thing without endorsing it. Understanding Hitler does not mean you would vote for him.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hatfort]

Well, what I understand about Sinema is that she is not a centrist, she is very effectively blocking any leftwing policy as much to the right as she can from her position without being kicked out. Basically, being a rightist on a leftist position. 

When I refer to the right-left parameter, I mostly mean economical issues like inequality, taxation, public budget spending, working-class rights, poverty, housing, social protection, etc... I know the right is conservative and the left more progressive about those other culture war issues, there must be reasons for that, and I think Biden is fairly open with the LGTBQ+ people, which is cool, but that's not where I was framing his position on this right-left frame.

Nobody needs to chop his dick.  

I don't want to make this thread about trans issues, and I'd say it's enough to live and let live with respect, dignity and treating everyone equaly in essence. Unfortunately, I don't think that's enough, as there is a historical and current hostility towards trans people, many times violent, which makes them a vulnerable community that may need specific measures of protection.

[Godhead]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I swear, it's easier to teach a mule arithmetic than to get a progressive to understand a centrist.

You are NOT understanding her! You are strawmanning, demonizing  and projecting your worldview.

I am getting weary of this progressive stupidity.

You are not seeking genuine understanding.

She's not gonna let you smash bro, you can stop.

There could be a person in congress advocating for the murder of innocent children and some of you would be like: "Bro, come on, why are you criticizing this person, they are clearly stage red, come on bro u need to understand them."

People are criticizing Sinema because her position changed from what she ran on. That's a good thing. We want people to criticize politicians if they do dumb shit. We all understand that she is not a Marxist, people just expect that she does what she promised. This is not a strawman, this is not demonization nor is that projection.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Godhead

[Godhead]

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Godhead said:

There could be a person in congress advocating for the murder of innocent children and some of you would be like: "Bro, come on, why are you criticizing this person, they are clearly stage red, come on bro u need to understand them."

Exactly.

This doesn't help your cause.

Understanding why a politician calls to murder children is no easy thing.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly.

This doesn't help your cause.

You said before that she was never a true progressive or liberal and only pretended to be because she never had much intellectual honesty about herself. 

Her rhetoric was progressive and was a member of the Green Party around the year 2000. Do you think that she just simply got corrupted too much by the big money and corporate lobbying in politics?

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

You said before that she was never a true progressive or liberal and only pretended to be because she never had much intellectual honesty about herself. 

She's a moderate. Yeah.

Quote

Her rhetoric was progressive and was a member of the Green Party around the year 2000.

That was ages ago. People change.

Working in government will disabuse you of many utopian ideals in the name of being practical.

- - - - -

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

She's a moderate. Yeah.

That was ages ago. People change.

Working in government will disabuse you of many utopian ideals in the name of being practical.

- - - - -

 

Yeah I just watched that.

He mentioned how she not really going to change how she operates in the Senate, which means that Democrats will still have 51 senators in their caucus. Now Democrats in the Senate will have full control of all their committees and will have the power to unilaterally issue as many subpoenas as they want.

He also said though that Sinema switched parties to try to improve her electability.

How come Sanders, who is old enough to be her father, didn’t ever abandon his utopian ideals, even he has been a politician who has worked in Congress for most of his life?

The other old timer liberals who’ve also worked in Washington for almost their whole lives like Schumer, Pelosi, Durbin, Hoyer, and many others like them in Congress who never abandoned their core values, even though they have also been corrupt to some extent.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

How come Sanders, who is old enough to be her father, didn’t ever abandon his utopian ideals, even he has been a politician who has worked in Congress for most of his life?

Cause he is Bernie-fucken-Sanders.

You might as well ask why rats are not lions.

I doubt she is doing this for reelection. She's not likely to get reelected as an Indie.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Cause he is Bernie-fucken-Sanders.

You might as well ask why rats are not lions.

I doubt she is doing this for reelection. She's not likely to get reelected as an Indie.

Then, it sounds like she’s really planning on not being a senator after 2024, and probably wants to be some kind of lobbyist.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Hardkill

[DrugsBunny]

 

@Danioover9000 You posted this on my thread a couple days ago. Read it carefully and try to convince yourself that it makes even the least bit of sense.

On 12/9/2022 at 6:35 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@DrugsBunny Depending on one's stage of development, cognitive and moral development, personality, psychology, ego development, states of being, life experiences and other lines of development in other areas of life, along with beliefs systems and ideologies  imprinted and programed into a person's mind from culture that largely shapes how every bit of information is interpreted.

Ordinarily I wouldn't bring this up, but this literal coat-hanger abortion of an attempted cogent sentence perfectly encapsulates the insecurities of a desperately juvenile attempt to give the impression of far greater intelligence beyond what you actually have, which would explain why you resorted to the following nonsense seen below.

12 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Thank you, you just emphasized the weaknesses of those who are at Stage orange and are strongly identified as rationalists, atheists and scientists, who are hard core, hyper logical and full of hubris and full of being judgmental.

It cannot be understated how nakedly embarrassing it is to reflexively cast people into some nebulous colors model as a makeshift cover to conceal a childlike inability to intelligently engage with the subject matter.

You have won my 100th eye-roll of the day, sir. Congratulations.

15 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

the idea of a member of your ideological camp leaving for some other camp disturbs you, that you needed to make a post about the situation as a coping mechanism, or to shit talk about a political figure for clicks and trolling is telling about how you are triggered by this situation.

This is just juvenile, and my mental health has been sullied by even affording this any modicum of my attention.

Do you actually believe you've exposed some weak point in my perspective by insisting that my response to an overtly negative event happening means that I'm "triggered" merely by posting a response?

You would be seriously devastated (if it ever magically occurred to you) by the epiphany of how bafflingly unequipped you are to even participate in this discussion with the rest of us.

15 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@DrugsBunny You are so hubris that you even try to walk that fine line of what bends or breaks forum guidelines.

Unironically about to adopt "You are so hubris" as an inside joke among some IRL friends, lol.

Were you trying to outclass the incoherent drivel you vomited onto my thread a couple days ago?

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Then, it sounds like she’s really planning on not being a senator after 2024, and probably wants to be some kind of lobbyist.

Very likely. That's what many centrists do.