J.Krishnamurti on psychedelics. What do you Think ?

[Giulio Bevilacqua]

Question: A well-known author has written a great deal about the use of certain drugs which enable man to arrive at some visionary experience of union with the divine ground. Are those experiences helpful in finding that state of which you speak?

Jiddu Krishnamurti: You can learn tricks, or take drugs, or get drunk, and you will have intense experiences of one kind or another, depressing or exciting. Obviously the physiological condition does affect the psychological state of the mind; but drugs and practices of various kinds do not in any way bring about that state of which we are talking. All such things lead only to a variety, intensity and diversity of experience – which we all want and hunger after, because we are fed up with this world. We have had two world wars, with appalling misery and everlasting strife on every side; and our own minds are so petty, personal, limited. We want to escape from all this, either through psychology, philosophy, so-called religion, or through some exercise or drug – they are all on the same level.

The mind is seeking a sensation; you want to experience what you call reality, or God, something immense, great, vital. You want to have visions; and if you take some kind of drug, or are sufficiently conditioned in a certain religion, you will have visions. The man who is everlastingly thinking about Christ, or Buddha, or what not, will sooner or later have experiences, visions; but that is not truth, it has nothing whatever to do with reality. Those are all self-projections; they are the result of your demand for experience. Your own conditioning is projecting what you want to see.

To find out what is real, the mind must cease to demand any experience. So long as you are craving experience, you will have it, but it will not be real – real in the sense of the timeless, the immeasurable; it will not have the perfume of reality. It will all be an illusion, the product of a mind that is frustrated, that is seeking a thrill, an emotion, a feeling of vitality. That is why you follow leaders. They are always promising something new, a Utopia, always sacrificing the present for the future; and you foolishly follow them, because it is exciting. You have had that experience in this country, and you ought to know better than anyone else the miseries, the brutality of it all. Most of us demand the same kind of experience, the same kind of sensation, only at another level. That is why we take various drugs, or perform ceremonies, or practise some exercise that acts as a stimulant. These things all have significance in the sense that their use indicates that one is still craving experience; therefore the mind is everlastingly agitated. And the mind that is agitated, that is craving experience, can never find out what is true.

Truth is always new, totally unknown and unknowable. The mind must come to it without any demand, without any knowledge, without any wish; it must be empty, completely naked. Then only truth may happen. But you cannot invite it.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Giulio Bevilacqua
Adding

[Batman]

Yes, he is correct. I tripped for about 100 times on various substances, including LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA, 2CB, DMT, Ayahuasca, whatever.

They only provide temporary experiences and glimpses of truth, but they don't shift your consciousness of the truth in a persistent way. This can only be done without substances. You have to get out of the mind prison by your own, without the use of a drug that alters the mind in such a dramatic way.

I would even say that I wasted precious time due to my fixation on tripping. You can trip, but if you want real and permanent change in your consciousness of truth, you can't forsake meditation/self-inquiry/koans. Drugs can only take the mind to its source for a short time. They have serious limitations.

[Leo Gura]

BS

[Devin]

14 hours ago, Giulio Bevilacqua said:

; but drugs and practices of various kinds do not in any way bring about that state of which we are talking.

And the mind that is agitated, that is craving experience, can never find out what is true.

 

Quote

Truth is always new, totally unknown and unknowable. The mind must come to it without any demand, without any knowledge, without any wish; it must be empty, completely naked. Then only truth may happen. But you cannot invite it.

a bit contradictory; states 'knowns', then says "truth is always new, totally unknown and unknowable", then states a third known, but other than that it's quite beautiful

Edited December 9, 2022 by Devin

[Rigel]

I have no idea. It's fun to read out loud tho. Mouth makes noise and goes brrrr. 

[Batman]

@Tahuti 

You are completely deluded. I hope you won't drag others into your delusions.

[Pudgey]

@Giulio Bevilacqua None of what he's saying is useful. Ignore it all, take psychedelics and stop trusting humans. 

@Batman You probably have dog shit genetics and karma. You probably need 100's of more psychedelic experiences because of it. 

My 1 dose of ayahuasca have shift my consciousness so significant that a full ceremony of ayahuasca would take me to planes of consciousness that you can never imagine. The highest-peaks are temporarily, but the lessons and conscious shifts are a lifetime. That DOES NOT mean that there are not permanent shifts of consciousness. It could take month(s) to year(s) to reach such permanency or shifts. Ayahuasca, by it self, has completely altered the way my body functions, spiritually. 

Stop associating tripping to God Realization with psychedelics.

Psychedelics can 100x your contemplation and meditation efforts without tripping. 

Don't project your genetics or karma or psychedelic failures on everyone else.

The only person deluded here is you. 

[Flyboy]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

BS

Meta-BS

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Meta-BS