Police Activity

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@OBEler I understand why police shoot in the chest. This is irrelevant to the taser issue.

I have seen plenty of videos where a guy with a knife could have been easily and safely disarmed with a taser, but the cop either didn't have a taser or didn't use one. I don't think it's excusable for a cop not to have a taser.

Cops don't like using tasers because its harder to aim, once you miss you are vulnerable, and its stopping power is not as consistent. Cops are not interested in preserving another life, they are concerned with preserving their life. Cop culture is designed to get the cop home at the end of the day, this means cops are taught to preserve their own life over your life. Its the classic kill or be killed. In fact, they use psychological tests to weed out those they think who cannot stomach this line of work. 

I'm of course talking about United States Police Culture in general, cannot speak much on other countries.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Razard86

[LSD-Rumi]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

The fact that you come to that conclusion off a couple of videos? You do know statistically majority of crime by the numbers is done more by white people. Blacks have higher percentage within their population but if you take raw data of the numbers of violent crime its white people by a mile because of population. So if I sat you in a chair and showed you all the police videos of crime it would be overwhelming white, so after that sitting and watching...should you profile white people? Your brain would only retain whites as criminals as the sea of all that white violence gets drowned by the totality and sheer numbers.

You see how silly your statement is when taken at face value?

Of course, we are talking about regions where black violence is more common. Black people are very civil in many regions.

 

[JosephKnecht]

The audacity of this police officer...

Absolutely brutal. 

 

[Razard86]

49 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Of course, we are talking about regions where black violence is more common. Black people are very civil in many regions.

 

Regions where black violence is more common is where ever the black population is most centralized in but this is true for basically any race. These topics are a lot more complex than you realize if you really want to study it. The issue though transcends race. This is a gun issue, this scene you just witnessed doesn't happen that often in other countries because they ban the use of guns. 

This scene is the reason why profiling happens, because profiling is a natural defense mechanism your brain does to root out danger. If I dropped you in a jungle your brain would profile what is dangerous or not based on that environment. Profiling is an inherent aspect of policing that has nothing to do with how "good" or "bad" someone is but it completely environmental/context based. 

If you lived in a neighborhood where majority of people who wore white t-shirts and jeans were gang members going around killing people. If you moved there in ignorance and walked outside wearing their uniform you would put the police on edge. All you would need is someone to call the police scared of you, and for you to reach for something black in their presence and you would be a stain on concrete.

[Kksd74628]

@Razard86

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You do know statistically majority of crime by the numbers is done more by white people. Blacks have higher percentage within their population but if you take raw data of the numbers of violent crime its white people by a mile because of population.

Yeah, but the only point that matters when considering profiling is frequency of crimes between different groups of people. Let's say you have 2 lakes you could go to fish. Lake number 1 which has 1000 fish, but is 1000 x bigger in area than lake number 2 or lake number 2 which has 100 fish. So basically the frequency of fish in the lake number 2 is higher and therefore you'd get more fish faster when fishing there. So it doesn't matter how many fish there are, but the frequency you'll catch them. That's the point which matters when you try to find good fishing place; where you get fish more often. You got what I said?

[Leo Gura]

Only justice is not fishing.

The goal isn't to arrest as many people as possible. The goal is justice.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Kksd74628]

@Leo Gura

But the question again is that which is more important in this specific scenario justice or safety. I'd even argue that when we have more safety we can focus more to justice. I mean you could do it the other way around too in some sense, but I just think fixing lower stage problems first to some degree before moving higher in the scale of problems is good thing to do. The same way as you can't make people meditate and relax when you're pointing them with the gun or they are pointing you with one. So stage green people sometimes get too carried away trying to fix some very high tier problems when we have some more important ones still unsolved. You see that?

[Raze]

 

[Kksd74628]

@Leo Gura

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The goal isn't to arrest as many people as possible. The goal is justice.

I think that's bad way to think about it. Having justice without safety is hard.

[Danioover9000]

   Brutal examples of masculine love:

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

 

That's where a taser would have been good.

A taser can be more effective at stopping a person than a pistol -- paradoxically. You won't be driving away like that if you're zapped.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Brutal examples of masculine love:

 

This is also a great example of where a taser would have been more effective.

The problem with a pistol is that you have to hesitate a lot more before firing. A taser you can fire without worrying. Especially when you have multiple cops on the scene. The one leading should be using a taser, with the others pistols as backup if the taser misses. There was no need to shoot this guy. It didn't even stop him effectively and could have killed the woman.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Tyler Robinson]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The one leading should be using a taser, with the others pistols as backup if the taser misses. There was no need to shoot this guy. It didn't even stop him effectively and could have killed the woman.

Is there anything else that can work besides a taser? 

[Florian]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's where a taser would have been good.

A taser can be more effective at stopping a person than a pistol -- paradoxically. You won't be driving away like that if you're zapped.

I feel like the officer did such a bad job there though, holy shit. Makes me angry. Acting like this towards the driver wasn't justified. 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Florian said:

I feel like the officer did such a bad job there though, holy shit. Makes me angry. Acting like this towards the driver wasn't justified. 

That was a bad shooting, no doubt.

[Razard86]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:21 PM, Kksd74628 said:

@Leo Gura

But the question again is that which is more important in this specific scenario justice or safety. I'd even argue that when we have more safety we can focus more to justice. I mean you could do it the other way around too in some sense, but I just think fixing lower stage problems first to some degree before moving higher in the scale of problems is good thing to do. The same way as you can't make people meditate and relax when you're pointing them with the gun or they are pointing you with one. So stage green people sometimes get too carried away trying to fix some very high tier problems when we have some more important ones still unsolved. You see that?

1. There is no justice, our criminal system isn't concerned about justice. It is concerned about demonization, about punishment. All the research says that if you were concerned about justice you would be focusing on rehabilitation and reintegration, and about solving the issues that have been known to foster criminal activity.

2. All of our actions have continuously shown that is not our concern. From the way our media reports crime, to the way we represent criminality in movies and t.v. shows, we have a cultural bias against justice that bleeds into all aspects of both crime fighting, and how it is adjudicated .

[Razard86]

This was a while back, but this Officer violated so many police procedure stuff, and ended up killing this guy. He got off!!! A lot of the times, the way police are prosecuted by prosecutors, and the whole process of the jury selection process can help get them off. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Razard86 Yeah, that was a very bad example.

[Kksd74628]

@Razard86

We are moving towards more justice, but as I said we can't have justice without safety (low SD stage foundation). I am just trying to point the problem that so called "moral people" tend to have which is that they point problem in our society without realizing that this step is an essential in our development to go forward. No one is arguing that inequality should be a permanent solution, but that is just what it is right now. That's why I don't mind about any injustice in stop-and-frisk for example, because we got more foundational problems to work on. Just do whatever it takes to handle criminals to any extent so we have little bit safer environment to think about what to do next.

[Tyler Robinson]