Should we manipulate children?

[John Paul]

9 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@John Paul I’d like to understand you better 

Most everyone spends a lot of time in their life manipulating someone else (or getting manipulated) I’m just questioning manipulation’s true function in the human race at large with what I think is the most rampant manipulation of the ones who are most susceptible to manipulation: kids.

[John Paul]

@Carl-Richard for what reason?

[Carl-Richard]

3 minutes ago, John Paul said:

@Carl-Richard for what reason?

First of all, give me a definition or description of what you think manipulation is.

[John Paul]

@Carl-Richard actions intended to change someone else’s course of actions 

[Thought Art]

@John Paul Because, when a diamond is first gathered from mining it is unrefined. So, we must polish and carve the Diamond so it can sit nestling upon thy jewelry.  ? 

Manipulation is part of human survival. Humans are essentially wild animals otherwise.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[John Paul]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@John Paul Because, when a diamond is first gathered from mining it is unrefined. So, we must polish and carve the Diamond so it can sit nestling upon thy jewelry.  ? 

Manipulation is part of human survival. Humans are essentially wild animals otherwise.

so, how would you manipulate a child into this diamond? And how would that manipulation into a diamond serve the human race as a whole?

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, John Paul said:

@Carl-Richard actions intended to change someone else’s course of actions 

Then hell yes, you want to manipulate the hell out of your children. As a parent, your first job is to be source of love and safety, but you also want to be a source of growth and character. So you want to shape them to become something like you: a responsible adult. But that is a gradual process, and you want to use the right strategies at the right time.

I think all parents would benefit from learning about the circle of security. This will almost guarantee your child having a secure attachment style:

 

Avoid traditional techniques like time-outs or ignoring emotional outbursts. You always want to be in an active and responsive relationship with your child. You don't teach independence through absence. Let them socialize early, expose them to new things, encourage their interests. Then as they grow, gradually raise your expectations for appropriate behavior relative to their developmental stage.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[John Paul]

@Carl-Richard I love that picture. 
im not saying whether we should be kind to children or not… I’m saying what good is manipulation?

 

and also what about the idea that a child learns more from watching how you behave than from what you say?

Edited December 5, 2022 by John Paul

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, John Paul said:

@Carl-Richard I love that picture. 
im not saying whether we should be kind to children or not… I’m saying what good is manipulation?

Good manipulation is: "what is the appropriate norm relative to their developmental stage, and what techniques can you employ to manifest that in your child?" Bad manipulation is to set too low or too high standards and use the wrong techniques at the wrong times.

[John Paul]

@Carl-Richard okay. How can a technique cause someone to get developed? 

[Thought Art]

A child needs love first and foremost. The five A’s

1. Appreciation 

2. Acceptance 

3. Acknowledgment 

4. Affection 

5. Attention 

But, also there’s a degree of manipulation that changes the child to grow into a person who can function in society: can clean their room, goes to schools, values learning and discipline, etc

[John Paul]

@Thought Art how does that list of stuff that you are saying we should manipulate kids into doing help the human race at large?

[John Paul]

@Tahuti what does that mean?

[John Paul]

@Tahuti what is truth? How does it benefit the human race at large? What is conscious marketing? 
 

 

[John Paul]

@Tahuti children and people are manipulated more than just by ads. Some people are in a constant state of manipulation, I know I can relate on some level. 

[John Paul]

@Tahuti this post is not in the context of non-duality. I specifically mentioned the human race. I’m speaking as a human who is dual. If I wasn’t I would be absolutely silent. 

[Carl-Richard]

@Tahuti Are you smoking DMT while posting on the forum? ?

[John Paul]

4 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

manipulation is a pretty strong word

 

what about influence 

When does influence become manipulation?

[John Paul]

@Twentyfirst
in what way could attempting to influence children benefit the human race as a whole?

Edited December 5, 2022 by John Paul

[John Paul]

@Twentyfirst by that logic: if monkey see you manipulating, they will manipulate… if monkey see you try to influence, they will try to influence. How does more monkeys trying to influence each other help the human race as a whole?