Understanding The Conservative Mind

[Thought Art]

I thought that this was one of the best episodes in a long time. I think that Leos' videos:

1. Understanding the Exquisite Balance of Life

2. High Conscious Politics Series

3. What is Wisdom?

4. What is Integrity?

5. as well as many others

That there is a great synergy becoming apparent in my mind of how these videos come together to be greater than the sum of their parts.  

One of my biggest take aways was really seeing the importance of conservative principles in a balanced life. Seeing the pro's and cons between Liberal and Conservative ideas I found really grounding. I think hearing Leo talk about real, 'healthy' conservatism and its appeal and power to be comforting and true given my own liberalism and the suffering and cons that came with it. 

I am seeing a bigger picture here which I am going to be making more explicit to myself over the coming years that comes down to a 'divine' balance in life. I am beginning to see a... what is it called.. Transcendent perspective on Politics that is above being on the left or the right, or heavily driven politics based on pop cultural issues. Really, both Conservatism and Liberalism are Yin and Yang, important dualities that are divinely inspired within societies that allow them to survive and yet evolve. The tug of war between liberals and conservatives is actually at it's pure form healthy. As it is in ourselves as individuals we want to balance our liberalism and conservatism in a healthy way. Depending on our upbringing and survival needs this shapes in what ways we are likely to be on either end of this duality.

To what degree should we open gates, try new things and allow ourselves freedom with finance, sexuality, identity, art, drugs etc? And to what degree should we stick to what works? We simply don't know. But, each human is a bit different in this regard and each strategy comes with it's own pros and cons. Conservatism is actually in a lot of ways.. if what works works... more safe. Yet, at the same times somethings changing a way can be safer in than old ways. But, that can't be known. There is always the "fog of war" as we go about new ways of science, new ways of living, new ways of politics, new ways of identity, new ways of etc.

The problems exist in society when each side doesn't understand each other. As well when our societies poor epistemology and state of mental health, and education etc  being affecting how our society operates... Essentially what we see in a lot of Conservative politics in the US is corruption unfortunately and doesn't portray what healthy conservatism is and what role it plays in a healthy society but also in a healthy personal development. There is also a lot of corruption in left politics as well. Many people who are mentally ill begin playing identity politics which I think is very dangerous and part of my own conservatism around trans ideas. I am pro trans etc, and yet I do think there is a lot of mental health problems in that particular community as well as low levels of personal development that leads them to care so much about how others think of them. But, I am open to the realities and importance of feeling accepted, safe, seen etc as a human. It's complicated. Some people, both on the left and right are conservatism in that they want to conserve their identities. The duality between left and right does collapse as all dualities do.  The healthy/ unhealthy of society too is it's own ying and yang. The balance of healthy and unhealthy. Though, this duality is asymmetrical in quality to the conservative/ liberal duality. It would require much more contemplation to explain that idea here.

Liberal vs conservative also need to be held to the light with: Spiral development, ego development, mental health, education, spiritual develop etc.

I have been learning over the past few years the importance of conservatism for life long growth. That, for me personally my liberalism needs to be rooted in a healthy conservatism to keep my healthy, sustained and evolving over time. Being too liberal can be very dangerous because what so much that exists in the social matrix works. However, when we are exploring reality and doing deep philosophy there is the importance of the willingness to take risks. 

I have seen myself with regards to certain ideas in reality gone way way way outside of society in terms of my openness, triviality, etc go too liberal to be even safe to share those ideas with the most progressive people. In some ways my ideas would make liberals relatively conservative. So, I have been actually working to make myself more conservative over the past 2 years. 

This talk on Liberals and Conservatism can give you a greater respect for everyone in society as you begin to see the value in their different perspectives. It can also show you how you can begin to balance out your own life. When you apply spiral dynamics, Susan C's models with balancing a healthy conservative/ liberal approach to your life there is something deeply powerful in that. As well as developing a other healthy personality traits not measured by these models.

Balance, consciousness and love. 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

There’s also this thought I have about people who profess themselves to be liberal in theory but largely act and vote in conservative ways at their town halls. This is common I have learned in the US and probably around the world. 
 

I am also learning that my liberal views around helping people are changing. I recently let a friend who was struggling to find a place to live sleep on the floor for 2 months, it turned out to be very stressful. They smelled really bad, would stay out all night drinking. Often showing at at 4 am in the morning and waking me up, took and lost my umbrella without permission and took a 500 dollar pair of headphones. He has just disappeared. I only asked for a small amount to cover utilities. He said he was very grateful. Don’t fucking trust anyone who is grateful. They aren’t. 
 

Next time, anyone asks me for help in this way I’m saying no. Your going homeless I don’t care you people don’t respect those who you ask for help that’s why you are in this situation in the first place.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

In order for their to be liberals, there needs to be conservatives to keep a society in intact and integrity. Liberals don’t see this, that conservative ideals, principles, habits, and ways of life and being are really important. If you have no conservative traits that is very dangerous. 

In order to give and help others, you must withhold, you must have boundaries, you must allow people to go homeless. Letting this person live with me set me back on my business which could help thousands of people. In order to have beauty, you must also allow the ugly. 

People who can’t take care of themselves, they get fucked by nature. It’s not my problem. These same people will fuck me if I help them. So, they need to figure out their own shit. I can offer help, but I do it with boundaries and a realistic expectations that this human is a selfish asshole in nature. 

Reality is brutal and complex and elements of conservatism are crucial for living a good life. 
 

Being a bleeding heart, libtard, caring about all the homeless, the suffering, the needy, etc can is great but if you go about it with too much openness you get fucked by these same people you want to help. Boundaries, consertivisms, not being nice, saying no, embracing the brutal reality etc are all great aspects of a conservative development. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

Good. Someone's getting it.

[Tyler Robinson]

To be fair, nearly the whole planet has mostly been conservative. 

Swing the pendulum a bit. 

 

 

[Thought Art]

I am also wondering what executive functioning is and how that plays into conservative behaviour. Hmm, like people with a more developed prefrontal cortex can for see dangers in advance to they act in a more conservative way. Yet, some people with a different brain can’t foresee this and take more risks. Unfortunately, I do have an ADHD diagnosis. I think contemplating wisdom, getting burned by lack of critical thinking in the past, impulsive behaviour in the past, meditation etc…. 

I will persist until I am acting in accordance with high wisdom, etc

I also wonder how the age of a system (person, society, ego group) becomes more conservative the more it sees the dangers of its liberalism given finite resources, risk, etc

A young person may be more conservative but as they age, they get burned they develop more healthy conservativism.  So paradoxically being conservative it more liberal. Maybe

Just a thought ? 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

Generally speaking the mind ossifies and gets more closed with age. Hence more conservative.

[Thought Art]

30 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

To be fair, nearly the whole planet has mostly been conservative. 

Swing the pendulum a bit. 

 

 

How about, instead of swinging your pendulum along a linear duality, you learn to swing your pendulum along a set of sets of multiple dualities that tend to be paradoxical and asymmetrical depending on your limited vantage point. But, when you can see the full picture makes perfect sense.?

Something like, a pendulum that accounts for highly complex systems.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura Yeah, as I’m growing through my 20’s I’ve actually learned a deep respect for my grandfathers conservative life style. The results he has achieved I deeply admire. My foolish, unwise l, overly liberal early 20’s has taught me a lot. Now, at the same time I had a lot of conservative qualities that allowed me to develop myself a lot over the pat years. I think more conservative behaviour, while combined with my liberal side will reap some interesting results. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

There’s something here… what word could be used for the exquisite balance between liberalism and conservatism?
 

Wisdom.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[aurum]

@Thought Art

Nice insights.

I am also watching this series and appreciating it so far. I admire Leo’s ability to articulate the conservative position in a way I think they would agree with. It’s like a mirror reflecting back their perspective.

One of the main things I think I’m also getting out of this is a much deeper understanding of how Tier 2 works. Tier 2 really is its “own thing”. It’s not conservative or liberal, it’s a unification of both. But not in some disingenuous way where you just pretend to be above partisanship and taking sides. It transcends and includes partisanship and taking sides. It’s radically Inclusive, including of exclusivity and preferences.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, aurum said:

One of the main things I think I’m also getting out of this is a much deeper understanding of how Tier 2 works. Tier 2 really is its “own thing”. It’s not conservative or liberal, it’s a unification of both. But not in some disingenuous way where you just pretend to be above partisanship and taking sides. It transcends and includes partisanship and taking sides. It’s radically Inclusive, including of exclusivity and preferences.

Good

[Thought Art]

I am also impressed by Leo’s ability to express this subject from what I perceive as an even handed tier two lens. I had a thought today… Leo might really be the smartest person i “know”. 
 

Not to blow smoke up your ass Leo. You’ve still got a lot of work to do.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Dorje Chang]

@Thought Art Great post!

@Leo Gura It doesn't look like conservatism is caused by growing up in a harsh environment. Otherwise, we'd see conservatism rapidly declining with economic growth and being more prevalent in poorer urban areas.  

A related observation is that despite many changes in society and the economy over decades, we generally don't see conservative or progressive parties dominating national elections indefinitely in advanced democracies.  It does seem that people are wired differently in ways that maintain a certain balance in the proportion of people who identify as conservative or progressive relative to the overall culture at the time. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[Thought Art]

@Dorje Chang

21 minutes ago, Dorje Chang said:

@Thought Art Great post!

@Leo Gura It doesn't look like conservatism is caused by growing up in a harsh environment. Otherwise, we'd see conservatism rapidly declining with economic growth and being more prevalent in poorer urban areas.  

 

I think with this sort of thing you should collect a bunch of different examples of harsh survival environments through the worlds history and really look at how people responded. For example, look at peoples financial habits who grew up in the Great Depression vs those who grew up in times of great prosperity.

Then, also look at how complicated a nations segmentation is like the US. There’s many different demographics…  Plus there are the relative notions of conservatism as Leo said below.

I wonder about that, are poorer urban areas more liberal than wealthier rich areas? This may inspire some interesting paradoxes . However, how young are these urban areas? And, what conservative traits do these people have? 
 

Also, conservatism is in some ways what lead to the wealth so, is complicated and these two dualities are always in a dancing interplay to some degree.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Dorje Chang said:

 

@Leo Gura It doesn't look like conservatism is caused by growing up in a harsh environment. Otherwise, we'd see conservatism rapidly declining with economic growth and being more prevalent in poorer urban areas. 

Except we do see exactly that. It's just that you're not appreciating the relativity of the situation.

As I said, the conservatives in American are progressives relative to the Taliban. And that is because America is much more economically developed. If America had the development level of Afghanistan, Mitch McConnell would be passing laws prohibiting women from wearing skirts, and half the country would support it.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Jodistrict]

If you grow up in tough times you need discipline to survive and you are willing to sacrifice the present for the future.  For example, if the father of a poor family is alcoholic, he destroys their meager resources and they don’t have any chance.   On the other hand, a poor family raised with a narrow religious dogma can become prosperous in one generation.

As for homelessness, I talked to a business woman last night in Mexico, who when she was young built houses for the poor with Jimmy Carter.  She knew him personally and told me that power didn’t mean anything to him and he was a true humanitarian that just wanted to do good for people.   Jimmy Carter seems to be a highly developed human being who is disciplined and compassionate, but many so-called American “conservatives” don’t like him.  So, I think the work “conservative” actually can mean a low consciousness ethnocentrism and prejudiced mind only concerned with its immediate self.  The words “conservative” and “liberal” are too loose to make meaningful categories.
 

[Thought Art]

@Jodistrict Yeah, I think the way people use liberal and conservative identification breaks down under intense scrutiny. In reality people are composed of various conservative/ liberal elements.

Conseratisim can be a very powerful survival strategy. 
 

The alcoholism thing ties into mental health for an individual… but also how liberal a society is to allow the consumption of alcohol which is interesting.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

Jimmy Carter seems to be a highly developed human being who is disciplined and compassionate, but many so-called American “conservatives” don’t like him.

Jimmy Carter is the stereotypical example of feminine compassion and tender love.

Conservatives cannot respect a man that "soft". That kind of approach does not resonate with their harsher survival style.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Jimmy Carter is the stereotypical example of feminine compassion and tender love.

Conservatives cannot respect a man that "soft". That kind of approach does not resonate with their harsher survival style.

Even though he was socially liberal, he was actually fiscally conservative, for the most part. 

In fact, Carter was arguably the very first neoliberal Democratic president, or for that matter, the very first neoliberal President in the US. He supported and signed legislation that deregulated airlines, deregulated the trucking industry, and some other industries. He also wasn't for any kind of universal healthcare law because he thought that it would cost too much. All of his economic proposals entailed limited government spending as he was more concerned about reducing inflation and balancing the budget, especially considering the fact that he unfortunately had to deal with the terrible inflation crisis that occurred during his presidency. Guaranteed minimum income and federal jobs guarantee were perhaps the only two economically liberal ideas that he ever proposed.