Am I an idiot or yes?

[ivankiss]

3 months ago I got involved with this girl who's been waving quite a few red flags at me from the get go. It didn't bother me too mush at first, since we were more or less just friends with benefits. It was just about sex and hanging out. But after a while we started falling in love with each other, despite of our differences. We really don't have too much in common. But sex is out of this world good. Communication is pretty good too. I don't know... There's just something between us that I cannot really point towards. Attraction is very strong.

I was supposed to move far away, but one thing lead to another and I decided to stay here, at least over winter, and save up some more money before I embark on a journey. We we're both anticipating  the end from the very beginning. But it just didn't happen. Instead we were spending more and more time together. 

So here's the issue...

She's still married. And today her husband flew in from Australia to visit. In the past 4 years they've seen each-other once. They've been broken up for a long while, but still remained married. Supposedly, they should be divorcing now, if everything goes well.

I knew he was going to come, pretty much from the very beginning, but it didn't bother me back then... Now it's a different story. It bothers me a lot. I would be less anxious if he was staying in hotel or something.... But no. He's staying in a room in her apartment. For the next two weeks or so. Of course I'm freaking out. Who wouldn't?

I was super hesitant about this whole situation. I was very close to breaking up with her a few times these days. But I couldn't. I want to keep seeing her. I enjoy her company. Not to mention all that epic sex. It's really not something you find on every corner. 

So yeah, I guess I decided to go with it. To suck it up and go through these two weeks. 

Am I an idiot or yes? Could you do this? How would it impact you and the relationship overall?

She says nothing will happen between them... But I have a hunch that they're gonna fuck. In fact, I'm pretty sure they will. 

Clearly, I have an agenda here. I'm also super confused about us. We're together, but not really. We are exclusive, but not truly committed. It's not very clear what this thing of ours is. But I'd say we're in love. Maybe I've fallen for her just a bit more. Which doesn't really make sense... She's not exactly a super model. She has all these big red flags... We come from two different worlds. Why the fuck am I freaking out this much?

I want to keep seeing her later on. I want to keep having sex with her. But I really do not see us being good for each-other long term. The agenda I speak of, is wanting to have someone close to me while I finish my business here and move to another country. Which is also kinda stupid. Sooner or later it's gonna hurt.

So yeah, I'm not playing that clean either.

I'd be fine with all this, given the circumstances. But I guess I got too attached. I don't want to "share" her. The thought of that makes me wanna throw up.

I fear I will lose respect for myself by bending over this. And that way, she will lose respect for me too. It might fuck up the dynamic. We would brake up and I would end up making a big fool out of myself by going through this for nothing. On the other hand, maybe nothing would change and it would all be soon forgotten. Maybe we'd want each other even more.

I really don't know. I need some extra perspective on this. I have a history of being a fool for women and I fear I'm repeating the same mistakes again.

Help if you can. Thanks!

[Jacob Morres]

Ooo things are about to get rough

I have no advice sorry lol. I was sort of in a similar situation with a girl a few weeks ago actually lol. I ended up just leaving. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jacob Morres

[ivankiss]

@Jacob Morres Fuck! I know the "right thing" to do is to walk away. But I want to keep seeing her... It's so stupid.

[Roy]

Hmmm this is kinda tough. I don't want to make it seem like it's your fault because it seems like the situation is complicated. However being in this in-between place of being together, but not really being together is your responsibility to take control of. You were too indecisive and now are in a bit of a pickle. That's what all your emotions are a signal of. So You have a choice now that you should have made earlier;

> Either commit to her telling her you love her, and want to take things more seriously and be more committed. Which means she cannot be sleeping in the same apartment as her soon to be ex-husband. You won't allow it.

> Break up with her and find someone who is a better match, and in a more stable place.

It's your responsibility as a man to dictate the situation. You can't be doing this ambiguous dance for too long, because eventually one or both of you will get hurt. You need to create a vision and lead the relationship to the place where you want it to go. It sound harsh, but women don't really know what they want romantically. They almost need to be told what to do, albeit not always directly. This has been my experience with every single woman I've ever been with lol. Lead her or lose her.

They are like a candle flame, a beautiful but fickle thing. It blows with the wind of emotions they feel. If you don't contain and protect it, a strong enough gust might blow it out and the relationship will die.

All that said. In my opinion? You should break up with her so it's not on your mind. You are just enjoying the connection out of convenience before you move anyways, and you said it's a bad match long term. The fact the status of the relationship has also been left long enough and he is here, is giving her a lot of wiggle room to take advantage of the situation and double dip.

I hate to say it but from my POV and the information you gave it's likely she will let him fuck her brains all over the apartment, because they haven't seen each other in so long they probably forget why they hated each other and divorced, and he travelled such a long way. This is basically kind of cheating on her part, but I've heard of this scenario a thousand times. She will rationalize it post-event that emotions just got heated and it just "happened" lol.

So yeah dude. Claim her for yourself and tell her she isn't sleeping in the same apartment as him, or cut it off. She will either appreciate the pair of balls you're showing and she'll respect you and get it, or you'll do what is more logical and break up. You should probably focus on yourself for a while before moving anyways.

Let me know how it goes and good luck!

Edited December 1, 2022 by Roy

[ivankiss]

@Roy Thanks for such an in depth reply. I know what you're saying is right, but I'm not thinking sober right now. I'm confused and emotional. I don't know what I want either.

There is no way he's not staying at her place. Hotels are too expensive. It's all said and done already. I either brake up with her or I go through this. But here's the thing... Even if I was to brake up now I'd be suffering like hell for these two weeks, knowing that they're fucking all over the place. If I bend over this, at least we will keep hooking up a bit longer. I mean, he's leaving in two weeks, that's for sure. 

If I look at this as a potential "serious relationship", there's no way this would be cool. But if I look at it as just friends who are hanging out and having some great sex, it would not be such a big deal. Can I do that though? Can I see it that way? I'm not sure...

I feel like she's more, but I don't see us doing this long term. It's so twisted in my mind right now. I love her but I mainly want to keep hooking up.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by ivankiss

[ivankiss]

What I'm really curious about is why the fuck does this hurt so much? Why am I feeling this terrible? We've known each other for three months only. We did not plan a future together or anything like that. There's plenty of stuff I don't like about her. Why am I hurting so much about this? Has to do something with trauma and core wounds. I'd like to just not give a fuck. Why can't I do that? Why do I feel this so strongly? It makes no sense. Like it's not really linked to this scenario. Like this is just triggering a deeper, more real issue. It sucks very much.

Edited December 1, 2022 by ivankiss

[aurum]

@ivankiss The problem is you want conflicting things.

You don’t want to commit to this girl and make it monogamous, but you also don’t want to share her with anyone.

You gotta pick a path.

It’s also shitty from the girl’s perspective if she is looking for a deeper commitment. You’re not letting her pursue that, but you’re also not giving her what she wants. But she also probably also has feelings for you so she feels stuck.

If you actually love this girl and don’t want to share her, make it monogamous. Or accept that there might be some sharing. Or just cut the whole thing. Those are really your only options.

Edited December 1, 2022 by aurum

[ivankiss]

@aurum She's kinda in the same boat. Wants to be with me, loves me, but does not want to commit to anything too serious. She's afraid of losing her freedom and independence. We both had shitty experiences in the past and we struggle to fully trust each-other.

We were both indecisive and were putting out mixed signals from the get go. But we kept hanging out and getting closer to each-other.

I think we both want each-other. We want to be together. But neither one of us thinks this can be a long term thing. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by ivankiss

[Jacob Morres]

@ivankiss no I get it lmao I overstayed way too long, kept seeing her and got my ass whooped emotionally ?? . It really be hard to quit some things 

[King Merk]

You’re dating a married woman and upset that she’s fucking her husband.

Read that again to realize how ridiculous you sound….

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with your relationship to her. I just want you to see it for what it is.

You’re blinded by your emotions right and and growing more & more addicted to her pussy.

I can’t tell you what’s best for you but I suggest moving away as you originally planned. And get better with women. If you weren’t in a place of scarcity with women then you wouldn’t be putting up with this shit. 

[Etherial Cat]

14 hours ago, ivankiss said:

3 months ago I got involved with this girl who's been waving quite a few red flags at me from the get go. It didn't bother me too mush at first, since we were more or less just friends with benefits. It was just about sex and hanging out. But after a while we started falling in love with each other, despite of our differences. We really don't have too much in common. But sex is out of this world good. Communication is pretty good too. I don't know... There's just something between us that I cannot really point towards. Attraction is very strong.

I was supposed to move far away, but one thing lead to another and I decided to stay here, at least over winter, and save up some more money before I embark on a journey. We we're both anticipating  the end from the very beginning. But it just didn't happen. Instead we were spending more and more time together. 

So here's the issue...

She's still married. And today her husband flew in from Australia to visit. In the past 4 years they've seen each-other once. They've been broken up for a long while, but still remained married. Supposedly, they should be divorcing now, if everything goes well.

A marriage doesn't mean necessarily they are still tied romantically to each other. It's... a legal construct. A way to arrange one's life/survival together. Dissolving it requires a lot of paper work, and negociation. It changes someone's tax status, and potentially someone's resident status in a country, per exemple.

Honestly... If they've been seeing each other only once in 4 years... I'm under the impression they aren't that much into one another in a romantic way. They seem to be married but living separate lives or something.

15 hours ago, ivankiss said:

She says nothing will happen between them... But I have a hunch that they're gonna fuck. In fact, I'm pretty sure they will. 

Do you know why he is coming where she's at, even though that guy is Australian and they haven't met in 4 years? I think that's probably one of the key element to understand what's their situation like?

You should take into consideration what she told you, and not dismiss it that fast. Hasn't she been particularly honest with you in the past, to the point of making you uncomfortable with her admission? A big recurring problem that I see on this forum is that guys do not take seriously what women say, and project a lot of their unconscious ideas on what is often a much more benign reality. 

If she hasn't seen her husband for 4 years, and she's been having awesome sex and moments with you, there are some odds that she's really not planning to have sex with him, because she's not even anymore that into this husband. He's a choice she made a lot time ago. Perhaps she doesn't even resonate with him anymore. What did she tell you about him? Does it sound to you that she enjoy having sex with him and would jump on the occasion to do so? Female sexuality is very different from masculine sexuality in the sense that a man would engage sexually with most women who meet his attraction threshold but women are very much more resonating with how a guy make them feel emotionally, or because of romantic feelings.

Another point here is, that I think you might be feeling threatened in your masculinity because a girl you've got your sight on is in a situation where another man is gravitating very close to her. Obviously, you are jealous and feel powerless just because this situation is happening.

15 hours ago, ivankiss said:

I fear I will lose respect for myself by bending over this.

This hints to the point above.

15 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Clearly, I have an agenda here. I'm also super confused about us. We're together, but not really. We are exclusive, but not truly committed. It's not very clear what this thing of ours is. But I'd say we're in love. Maybe I've fallen for her just a bit more. Which doesn't really make sense... She's not exactly a super model. She has all these big red flags... We come from two different worlds. Why the fuck am I freaking out this much?

I want to keep seeing her later on. I want to keep having sex with her. But I really do not see us being good for each-other long term. The agenda I speak of, is wanting to have someone close to me while I finish my business here and move to another country. Which is also kinda stupid. Sooner or later it's gonna hurt.

So yeah, I'm not playing that clean either.

13 hours ago, Roy said:

It's your responsibility as a man to dictate the situation. You can't be doing this ambiguous dance for too long, because eventually one or both of you will get hurt. You need to create a vision and lead the relationship to the place where you want it to go. It sound harsh, but women don't really know what they want romantically. They almost need to be told what to do, albeit not always directly. This has been my experience with every single woman I've ever been with lol. Lead her or lose her.

So, I don't agree with Roy's way of presenting things as it sounds particularly infantilizing and hold the seed to many other problematic aspects in a relationship as such as a lack of communication that I can't stop reading about as the n°1 complain and the reason why heterosexual couple burst in the west, but he's got a point when he says that you are complaining about a situation you've been co-creating.

What about what you should have been doing / what you should be doing in order for this situation not to occur ? You haven't claimed that woman. If you had taken the initiative to tell her you wanted her as a part of her life, and contributed in co-creating a life together, you'd have had a right to complain. But you didn't. You did nothing. Because you aren't sure yourself of what you want.

In any case, you haven't acted as her man, so you don't really get to complain as if you are. Now you are in a situation where you want the butter and the money for the butter.

12 hours ago, aurum said:

 

It’s also shitty from the girl’s perspective if she is looking for a deeper commitment. You’re not letting her pursue that, but you’re also not giving her what she wants. But she also probably also has feelings for you so she feels stuck.

If you actually love this girl and don’t want to share her, make it monogamous. Or accept that there might be some sharing. Or just cut the whole thing. Those are really your only options.

I agree with aurum there. Even though, I think she might not even necessarily pursue him.

13 hours ago, ivankiss said:

There is no way he's not staying at her place. Hotels are too expensive. It's all said and done already. I either brake up with her or I go through this. But here's the thing... Even if I was to brake up now I'd be suffering like hell for these two weeks, knowing that they're fucking all over the place. If I bend over this, at least we will keep hooking up a bit longer. I mean, he's leaving in two weeks, that's for sure. 

Maybe he's coming over at her place to save up money, like any other guest would if there is enough space in her appartement. It's rather common.

I know separate couples that are sharing houses and date other people while going through life transition. It's rather common nowadays. Actually, most of the long term relationship I've seen ending in the last 1-2 years have been following this pattern. It's odd, but it's due to how tight the housing market is and how the finances of 1 or the 2 individuals are tight. From outside, the optics look bad but I know for sure these couples have very little interest fucking. Most of the time, these were relationship were little romantic feelings was left but deep affection and sharing a life together was an habit.

 

[ivankiss]

@King Merk I think you did not read my original post properly. It's not like she's still with her husband and I slipped in. They've been broken up for years and lived on opposite sides of the world. But yes, definitely got addicted to sex with her, I'll give you that. I'm not saying this is clean, I'm just trying my best to navigate these waters. I'm aware I'm kinda being a devil here too. I'm playing with fire.

@Etherial Cat Thank you. Appreciate your input a lot.

As I said, it's not just me that didn't want to take things into a serious direction. She was hesitant too. And not too long ago we both believed I was going to leave the country.

She did not want to lose her freedom and independence and I did not want to be knocked off the path I was carving for myself. I was also not fully healed from my previous relationship just yet. So you can see how it only made sense to keep some distance between us and be cautious. It was mutual. An agreement. But I guess our feeling got the best of us. It was so good and nice when we were together, we simply started falling in love. It wasn't really our intention. And now we have this situation to deal with.

They planned his visit before I even came into the picture - I believe. So it's not like they came up with the idea yesterday. I cannot really say that she's betraying me or fooling me in any way. It was all open and known. We talked about it a lot too. And now it's happening, and it's not easy. I'm pretty sure it's difficult for her too.

Yes, she assured me she won't sleep with him, several times. But she also admitted that if I wasn't in the picture, they'd probably have sex during his stay. So yeah, I'm not very sure what to take out of that. I'm not going to sit here and keep telling to myself that she's an angel and won't do anything. It's likely that something will happen between them. But I also might be wrong. Maybe she's truly going to put up a wall. She keeps telling me that she loves me and wants only me. She also said that his husband has nothing on me. She said sex was never as good with him as it is with me and it would be foolish to downgrade when she has something this good. I'm also way better looking. Her words. But yeah, I'm aware these are just that. Words. Anything can happen in the heat of the moment. And I'm just trying to find a way to be cool with whatever happens, so that I can keep seeing her. I think I'm getting there. Feeling much better today.

And you're right. It's just a piece of paper more or less. At least that's what she said. They stayed married out of some sort of convenience. Financial or other. But who knows what's really going on underneath it all. I don't know their story.

So yeah. This sucks. And maybe she's playing me. Maybe not. Maybe they're fucking as I'm typing these words. Maybe they won't touch each other at all during his stay. I cannot really know. And to be completely honest, I don't really trust her. Not fully. She also admitted she used to play men and tends to lie. But supposedly, I'm an exception. She does not want to hurt me. Do I believe it? Hm, no, not really. But also kinda yes. 

It's all quite shaky and uncertain, but it is what it is. I'm already in it. I guess I'll see it through now. Tomorrow night we're seeing each-other. Will see how it feels and goes. 

[ivankiss]

Just came home. We spent together two hours or so. I visited her while she was working. It was very pleasant. I was surprisingly calm and relaxed. I felt good. We had sex in a toilet at her work place. It was awesome.

She was complaining about her husband for while, telling me how frustrated she is with little things he does, how awkward he is, etc. She said she couldn't get me out of her head and kept wishing to meet me. Felt good to hear all that, cannot lie. Of course it boosted my ego.

I don't think she'd be fooling me this hard. I also don't think she could fuck him and me at the same time. She really does not come across as that kind of a girl. But I'm still not trusting her blindly. Better safe than sorry. I'll give her the benefit of doubt, but I won't completely exclude the possibility of her possibly lying to my face. I don't know her all that well, after all.

But yeah, definitely not freaking out that much, or at all, anymore. Even if something happens between them, I feel quite a bit more at peace with it now, for whatever reason. Maybe it's because I see myself as a higher value guy than her husband after what she's told me, maybe because I saw how much she missed me and how happy she was to see me, maybe because I emptied my balls, or whatever else. Point is, I feel quite reassured and at peace with the situation now. Still not too happy about it, but I'm ok with it. It's an experience that I never had before. And that's kinda cool. 

I still don't think she's the "love of my life". So this is all fine, I guess. I should try and extract the most out of it and have as much fun as possible. Maybe it turns into something more serious, maybe not, but for now I should relax and simply enjoy the ride.

All is well.

[Roy]

This all seems too volatile for you to make any serious commitments. I hope you keep your head on straight. Keep your plans with your career and moving. Honestly just have fun with her while you're still here, and be mindful about where your attachments are and pull them back a bit.

Also don't let her get any more attached. This entire experience should be a temporary thing for you. Be ready to move on when the time comes, and be happy it happened.

Be realistic. If she divorced once it's extremely likely she'd do it again (not saying you'll get married but you know what I mean). Loyal, trustworthy women don't look to upgrade after such a serious commitment. It's an obvious sign she does what is convenient for her without considering the consequences it has on others.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Roy

[ivankiss]

@Roy Thank you. I see what you mean, and I kinda see things the same way (most of the time). That is, when I'm thinking straight and sober. When emotions take over, it's a bit of a different story. It can get quite intense, for whatever reason. As said, I think this situation is triggering something deeper and unhealed within me. It's not necessarily tied to her/us.

I just hope I can keep my head above the water. I don't want to get completely sucked into this. I'm staying on my path, there's no doubt about that. But I'd also like to avoid any potential heartache. I'm afraid of being played nasty and being hurt again. The last time it happened it completely destroyed me.

I am both in pain and in joy/love when with her. But I'd say the positive prevails so far. So it kinda seems worth it. 

Her husband did make a move on her. Grabbed her ass or something like that. But she swears she rejected him and told him that nothing will happen between them. I kinda believe her... He went to visit a neighbouring country for two days, so she spent the night at my place yesterday. It was so fucking good. We talked a lot and had incredible sex. It's really something else. I realize this is the main thing that got me hooked this much. Intimacy is just on another level with her. When it's just the two of us, it's dare I say perfect. But then I remember all those red flags... She hangs out almost exclusively with dudes, who of course want to fuck her... She's overly flirtatious and loves to party... Loves all that attention. She's in touch with her exes. She often withdraws and goes cold. Struggles to feel or express her feelings... Etc. All this screams to me that I should be super careful. She's open about it all and she also kinda warned me a few times not to fall head over heels for her. But last night she also said she can see me as a potentially serious partner. How much she respects me, loves me, wants me, etc.

Lots of mixed signals, from both sides. It's kinda messy, but it's also beautiful and it feels so damn good, when it does.

So again... am I an idiot? Haha. Should I not be dragging this out for too long? Knowing how vulnerable and sensitive I am right now, etc. What's your friendly advice? Do you think it's only going to become harder and harder to let go? Or can we keep things exactly as they are for these few months and then part ways in a calm, grounded way?

Sorry for whining this much, but I don't really have anybody to open up to about this right now. I just need to express these thoughts and feelings. The idea of someone hearing me and giving me an advice comforts me.

Edited December 6, 2022 by ivankiss

[Roy]

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

What's your friendly advice? Do you think it's only going to become harder and harder to let go? Or can we keep things exactly as they are for these few months and then part ways in a calm, grounded way?

My advice would be to say no and see each other less often before you leave. You'll have more time in between to ground yourself and be realistic, and when the time comes to split it won't hurt as much.

It's like weening yourself off a drug. They may feel good in the moment, but ultimately unhealthy long term and not a sustainable habit. So is the case with some relationships.

[ivankiss]

@Roy Yeah, I need to snap out of it. I'm losing my mind over nothing. She's a fuck buddy, that's it. It lasts while it lasts.

Thanks again.