Solipsism

[Someone here]

Right now I can see a person's face ..I can look at his eyes and I can become fully conscious of him . But I cannot be conscious as him. I can only be conscious of  him .i cannot penetrate inside his perceptual system and see the world via his eyes . If he was consious ,I would be conscious as him .but since I'm conscious as me and not as him..therefore he is not conscious and I'm the only conscious person In existence. 

My consciousness is the ONLY fact in existence. The consiousness of other beings is a Fantasy that I'm imagining to create an illusion of reality . 

So the entire universe is only the bubble of consciousness that I'm conscious of right now .

Solipsism isn't bad or crazy..it's the absolute truth. And I'm only having terrible time with it at the moment because I'm going through a process of stomaching  it and accepting it .Once I fully accept it...I wouldn't need to share anything on this forum .because I'm only sharing it with myself. 

[Federico del pueblo]

40 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Right now I can see a person's face ..I can look at his eyes and I can become fully conscious of him . But I cannot be conscious as him. I can only be conscious of  him .i cannot penetrate inside his perceptual system and see the world via his eyes . If he was consious ,I would be conscious as him .but since I'm conscious as me and not as him..therefore he is not conscious and I'm the only conscious person In existence. 

That's all just a bunch of self-supporting rationalisations buddy.

There's no way for you to know whether he is conscious or not.

Why do you assume that if you're not conscious as him that this means he is not conscious?

Did you logic your way to this conclusion?

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

That's all just a bunch of self-supporting rationalisations buddy.

There's no way for you to know whether he is conscious or not.

Why do you assume that if you're not conscious as him that this means he is not conscious?

Did you logic your way to this conclusion?

this is my own opinion that feels hard for me to say. So no hate please, I don't want to push a belief onto you so please stop reading and don't say anything rude please if you disagree :

I just don't see how more than one consciousness can be displayed at a time. I think the universe can only give vision, colors, and thoughts to one person at a time. But I believe all of life shares one being's life anyway. I feel like the universe can only be like one tv screen for everyone's eyes to look at, but inside same body. I guess the one living being would reincarnate forever too because there is not another option for the universe to give life to everyone. (I would think the being is a girl because if everyone had to vote on being male or female the most votes would probably be female)

I don't believe life ends after death, especially since the being shared by everyone has so many lives to lose if it dies. I feel like it is impossible for no life to be occurring in the universe at all.. So that would basically grant eternal life and happiness to one being that is not really ‘alone’, not human, but a vessel for all the souls to continue living forever. I wouldn't be exactly happy about it, and I feel like the universe would give everyone their own consciousness if it could be able to. I just think if there actually was more than one life going on at the same time, the original one beings eyesight would have to be a split screen like video games, but split into over 6 billion pieces. Which wouldn't make sense.

Solipsism is true .and what's more fascinating is that you can be 10000% sure about . Just study your direct experience carful enough.  No need to logic your way into convincing yourself about it as a belief system. 

Just think for a moment..what's the difference between Leo's bald head that you see on YouTube and Leo's bald head that you see in your dreams?  Is there any difference?  They are both appearances within your bubble of consciousness.  Which is the only thing that exists . And you know this very well. Your denial about it comes from an emotional reaction.  It simply doesn't "feel good " to view the world in a solipsistic view . But do you care about truth or how you feel ?that's the question. 

[Razard86]

15 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

That's all just a bunch of self-supporting rationalisations buddy.

There's no way for you to know whether he is conscious or not.

Why do you assume that if you're not conscious as him that this means he is not conscious?

Did you logic your way to this conclusion?

Its not, there are states you can reach that you realize that everyone you see is just an illusion you create in your mind. Your avatar and how it acts...is also an illusion as well. So your avatar is equally an illusion just as much as everyone is. The only thing that is real, is your POV. If you pay close attention...your avatar just does it what it does...its not actually being controlled by YOU. This is the same as everyone else.

Your only free will is where you place your attention, and your interpretation of events (being construct aware) but outside of that you don't control anything. You can never prove that a person is exists. Why? Because their existence is entangled with your own. Why? Because YOU ARE EXISTENCE. Without you....nothing exists. When your dream ends...everything ends. 

But this is the news nobody wants to hear. You understand when I tell you that life is a dream. You don't dispute that. But when someone tells you that others do not exist you reject it. When you turn a movie or tv off....do the characters exist? Nope. When you stop dreaming do the characters exist? No. When you turn a video game off do the characters exist? No. Have you ever had any knowledge outside of your point of view? NO.

All knowledge comes from POV. POV is ABSOLUTE. Your pov is ABSOLUTE. It has always been absolute. You cannot disprove this. Even thinking there is an alternative...is held within your point of view!!! If you cannot understand this, then its because you do not WANT to understand it. But it cannot be disproven EVER. Why? Because any attempts to disprove it...will always be...WITHIN your POV. 

Which means...you can create an illusion of others existing...why? Because you create everything through illusions. So notice that....imagining that possibility...still proves...that they are still a creation of your mind...you cannot escape your mind. Others are just illusions created by your mind. 

The truth is what is. Others are only true (what is) for a period of time. So are they real? They can only be real....as long as you imagine them. But since you have no beginning or end....the truth is....ONLY YOU ARE REAL (not your avatar). 

But real and imaginary are just concepts, they don't really mean anything at all. This message can only hurt an ego..because egos love constructing meaning.

[Federico del pueblo]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

this is my own opinion that feels hard for me to say. So no hate please, I don't want to push a belief onto you so please stop reading and don't say anything rude please if you disagree

I didn't mean to sound rude. Also I don't feel like you're forcing me to believe what you believe.

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I just don't see how more than one consciousness can be displayed at a time. I think the universe can only give vision, colors, and thoughts to one person at a time. But I believe all of life shares one being's life anyway. I feel like the universe can only be like one tv screen for everyone's eyes to look at, but inside same body. I guess the one living being would reincarnate forever too because there is not another option for the universe to give life to everyone. (I would think the being is a girl because if everyone had to vote on being male or female the most votes would probably be female)

I don't believe life ends after death, especially since the being shared by everyone has so many lives to lose if it dies. I feel like it is impossible for no life to be occurring in the universe at all.. So that would basically grant eternal life and happiness to one being that is not really ‘alone’, not human, but a vessel for all the souls to continue living forever. I wouldn't be exactly happy about it, and I feel like the universe would give everyone their own consciousness if it could be able to. I just think if there actually was more than one life going on at the same time, the original one beings eyesight would have to be a split screen like video games, but split into over 6 billion pieces. Which wouldn't make sense.

Ok.

So who or what is reading your (someone here's)  comment?

A fictional character called Federico? Is he conscious or not conscious?

Is he you in another life? Is his life simultaneous to yours or after/before yours? How does it work?

Are you writing this (Federico's) comment? Or are you just imagining it being written by an unconscious being?

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Just think for a moment..what's the difference between Leo's bald head that you see on YouTube and Leo's bald head that you see in your dreams?  Is there any difference?  They are both appearances within your bubble of consciousness.  Which is the only thing that exists . And you know this very well. Your denial about it comes from an emotional reaction.  It simply doesn't "feel good " to view the world in a solipsistic view . But do you care about truth or how you feel ?that's the question. 

Also it's just unhelpful that it's never clear whether you are talking about someone as a person or someone as all of god.

Of course I can imagine a bald head, whether I'm awake or asleep.

It doesn't proof anything to me though.

But if I watch one of Leo's videos he's gonna say whatever he said when he recorded the video, it's not gonna change unless he edits the video.

In my dreams at night he might say anything and it's completely random.

To me this doesn't proof that Leo does not have a consciousness of his own, how does it proof that to you?

[Gesundheit2]

Don't assume that so-called "direct experience" alone can lead to truth. Maybe it can, but also maybe it can't. Consider both sides of the equation.

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Ok.

So who or what is reading your (someone here's)  comment?

A fictional character called Federico? Is he conscious or not conscious?

Is he you in another life? Is his life simultaneous to yours or after/before yours? How does it work?

Are you writing this (Federico's) comment? Or are you just imagining it being written by an unconscious being?

Good questions. It's tricky to explain. But i will try my best to explain..

Whoever it is that is conscious in this Universe and reading this sentence RIGHT FUCKING NOW  is the ONLY conscious being in existence. 

So if you are conscious right now ..that means you are the only one . And no one else Is conscious but you. And even  if anyone else is conscious..you are them In a different timeline.  The bottom line is that there is only ONE conscious experience happening at a time .they are NOT simultaneous. 

18 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Also it's just unhelpful that it's never clear whether you are talking about someone as a person or someone as all of god.

Of course I can imagine a bald head, whether I'm awake or asleep.

It doesn't proof anything to me though.

But if I watch one of Leo's videos he's gonna say whatever he said when he recorded the video, it's not gonna change unless he edits the video.

In my dreams at night he might say anything and it's completely random.

To me this doesn't proof that Leo does not have a consciousness of his own, how does it proof that to you?

How do you even distinguish dreams from reality ?

You are missing the point.  That boundary between the dream world and the waking world is imaginary . Do you agree that everyone in your dreams are imaginary and just your own construction of your own mind ? Now just extend this to include even the waking world. 

However..it is up to you to believe what you want about this issue . I have a complete clarity about it . If by some implausible chance solipsism is correct, I think you would want to spin out whatever stories you have going as long as possible to avoid the loneliness of an empty universe. 

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Don't assume that so-called "direct experience" alone can lead to truth. Maybe it can, but also maybe it can't. Consider both sides of the equation.

The equation has no two sides. 

Direct experience is all there is .

Notice this!  Don't argue with me ..just notice it . It's not difficult or impossible to do .you can do it .

[Gesundheit2]

@Someone here Lol okay.

[B222]

If intelligence is infinite why would it limit itself to one? I will never know unless I’m awake somewhere else, which still means I’ll never know coz it’s still ‘me’

have trouble with it myself but can’t imagine other beings aren’t actually conscious just because I’ll never know they are unless I am them.

But consciousness is everything right? And I imagine it runs through all of us just the same ??‍♂️

I think it’s typical ego saying it’s only me. Stuck in human form, but consciousness is much more than one human, right? Even tho everyone of us will never ever know until we’re actually awake experiencing it, which then does seem logical that only one conscious being will ever exist because it seems the only way to find out is by being another, which can’t happen unless it’s me again lol 

Edited December 1, 2022 by B222

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit2

I obviously cannot prove that stones and bricks do not have experience. But suppose they do not have experience; they exist nonetheless. Therefore, the words "experience" and "existence" are meant differently  as  far as I'm concerned.

I don't really know of anyone who thinks and can justify that experience is an element of existence.

. Rocks exist, but we have absolutely no evidence that they experience anything.

I'm assuming that "experience" means consciously experience. If it just means "stuff happens to the target of the experience" then, sure, stuff happens to rocks. If we go with that definition, then I'd change my answer to yes. If something exists..if it's a form of matter, located in the Universe..then stuff happens to it, even if only on an sub-atomic level.but only YOU have sentience. 

[Nercohype]

Yes, there is ONE spirit but many bodies. 

One Spirit is looking through many eyes. 

Spiritually speaking we are One. Materialy speaking there are others. 

We have different bodies, brains, and psyches but ONE spirit.  

Energy is the opposite of Spirit and yet they are the same. Two sides of the same coin. If it were otherwise you would never recognize anything. The Spirit would be just itself. Without darkness, there is no Light. Without Light, there is no Darkness.

Shakti and Shiva 

Nothingness = Spirit

Something = energy

Merging of Spirit and Energy = Illumination

You have to square the circle 

You have a Material body so you have a capable brain and nervous system. And because of that, you have a working persona. (to keep the body alive and to procreate) The ONE Spirit in that individual body wills the material body to move. Spirit uses the persona(mind) to realize and look back at itself. Your true self is the Spirit. And Spirit has a WILL so this means that matter has no will. 

No thing = infinity = one 

0 = ♾️ = 1

One Spirit has three aspects. 

Spirit = no space 

+

Matter = infinite space  

= Oneness

Consciousness is Spirit. Your true self. Which is no self or infinite selfs. Poteto potato. Energy is motion so Spirit being its opposite must be No motion. No motion means It's perfectly still. This means the only means to match that primal state is to be completely still in body and in mind. ?

[Federico del pueblo]

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How do you even distinguish dreams from reality ?

Of course the distinction is artificial. But it's reasonable to distinguish the two.

You know that in a dream you could do things that are impossible to do in real life as a human. I could sometimes fly or float through space in my dreams. In real life the physical laws prevent me from flying and these laws are permanent or consistent. I'd have to seize being a human to fly. 

The imaginary realm (the way "imaginary" is normally used) is inconsistent. I could imagine a unicorn or a three headed monster, but nobody can see it but me. Not even I can see it clearly.

The physical laws might be "imaginary" too (imagined by god if you will), but they are imagined to be permanent, measurable and therefore certain phenomena become predictable, like the time needed to travel some distance.

In my dream I might be able to travel a few light years within a split second, which I can't do here in the physical realm.

Therefore the physical realm is perceived to be real as opposed to imaginary whether it's real or not.

39 minutes ago, Someone here said:

However..it is up to you to believe what you want about this issue

That's correct. I'm simply choosing to not believe anything until I know from direct insight, so my belief essentially is "I don't know" until I know.

[B222]

Only one perception and that’s right now. Everything else is imaginary and we can’t know for sure until we have that direct experience… can’t ever be more than one perception because to perceive another would mean perceiving as me again. It’s a mad one but I’m still not fully convinced that there isn’t infinite perception in one 

[Loveeee]

Being by your Self is lovely 

 

[Someone here]

16 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Of course the distinction is artificial. But it's reasonable to distinguish the two.

You know that in a dream you could do things that are impossible to do in real life as a human. I could sometimes fly or float through space in my dreams. In real life the physical laws prevent me from flying and these laws are permanent or consistent. I'd have to seize being a human to fly. 

The imaginary realm (the way "imaginary" is normally used) is inconsistent. I could imagine a unicorn or a three headed monster, but nobody can see it but me. Not even I can see it clearly.

The physical laws might be "imaginary" too (imagined by god if you will), but they are imagined to be permanent, measurable and therefore certain phenomena become predictable, like the time needed to travel some distance.

In my dream I might be able to travel a few light years within a split second, which I can't do here in the physical realm.

Therefore the physical realm is perceived to be real as opposed to imaginary whether it's real or not.

That's correct. I'm simply choosing to not believe anything until I know from direct insight, so my belief essentially is "I don't know" until I know.

bro..I'm asking how do you distinguish dreams from reality ? Which means how do you know you are not dreaming right now ? How do you know you are in the "real " world right now ?

Inside the dream there is a complete universe. It has the appearance of depth and solidity that we also experience when we are awake. The laws of physics are sometimes different and we meet with people who are deceased. However inside the dream, these things appear to be totally normal. They are all created by our mind. We can walk through forests and cities, lie on the beach or make love. We eat, drink and experience the full gamut of life. How can we tell that the waking experience is not a dream? How do we know for sure that when we sleep, that isn’t a waking up experience for another dreamer, the dreamer who is dreaming us?

Of course, we know that the waking experience is similar to dreams in many ways. We know that the world our senses perceive isn’t really as it seems. We know that the objects around us aren’t really solid..they are made of atoms which are themselves 99.9999999999999999% empty space. The apparent depth and solidity that we perceive are all creations of the mind. This is, of course, also true of your own body and those of the people around you.

Enlightenment is, in a way, realising that the waking world is just a creation of our minds. It is realising that as real and solid as it might seem, the waking world is really just a series of concept and ideas created by our minds. And, off course, the existence of the mind is itself just a dream. Seen at an atomic level, there is no brain, no body and no mind. These are also just ideas.

Inside our sleeping dreams, we also perceive bodies who seem to think and act and experience the world around them. Those bodies, brains and minds have no objective reality outside of the mind that is dreaming them. Why, then, is it so hard for people to accept that this world, too, is merely another dream?

Accepting that the waking world is another dream, devoid of objective reality outside of our minds, is the secret to permanent peace. It is lucid dreaming in the waking state. We participate in the world, totally accepting that is a dream and acknowledging that the dream has no objective reality. Once we accept that our own concept of self, of the ego, the “I”, is a complete fabrication, it is impossible to take it seriously like we once did. If you were asleep and having a lucid dream (i.e. aware that you are in a dream), would you worry about anything happening inside the dream? Or would you just go along with it and enjoy the ride?

[YogiCosmos]

This is all interesting. But this is conceptualization and living in the mind.

The true reality is of being. This simple message will get lost in the unawakened minds that read this. It’s okay.

Perceiving others and the world as an illusion is of duality. “Other” is an illusion… that implies there’s another that’s not real.

For true non-duality, subject and object have to collapse into one. All is real and all is also not real. True totality must be lived from a baseline of being.

What does this mean? The world, the ego and this dream is inclusive of the totality of non-duality.

Everything is that. True non-duality is inclusive of ego, creation, other, Self, and no-thingness.

Solipsism is only true when totality is lived 24/7, not conceptualized or experienced. You can imagine how hard this is to put into words. But the dream is real and also unreal.

Sorry guys. This also means you cannot spiritually bypass humanness. Many awake teachers view themselves and the world as an illusion and think they are above their shadows. They view themselves as the only awake entity in this universe. Hence, abuse occurs in their spiritual circles. Unresolved karma surfaces when awakened and plays out.

Seeing the world and others as an illusion is the second step of evolution in perceiving reality. This is where many get stuck.

The third step is seeing the world as divine play. The fourth step is transcending and seeing the world as uncreated in nothingness. The last step is seeing that the cause of creation is just pure divine power.

Edited December 5, 2022 by YogiCosmos

[Razard86]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:53 AM, Gesundheit2 said:

Don't assume that so-called "direct experience" alone can lead to truth. Maybe it can, but also maybe it can't. Consider both sides of the equation.

There are no sides, there is no equation, there is only mind. Direct Experience is absolute, if you argue against this, then you argue against your own perception. You have never experienced lack of direct experience in your life. You are either there, or not there. You only have consciousness, and lack of consciousness which are actually the same. There is nothing else. This is absolute. Anything else is dishonesty, lies, delusions, etc. 

Anyone who argues this has not done any real contemplation on the topic and is just full of fear of the truth. 

[Gesundheit2]

@Razard86 Lol okay.

[LastThursday]

On 01/12/2022 at 2:15 PM, Someone here said:

My consciousness is the ONLY fact in existence.

And therein lies the answer you're looking for. It's not your consciousness. You are inside it, not it inside you. In other words you're as much a construct as the person whose eyes you're looking into. They might not have consciousness, but neither do you. Solipsism is not true.