Friends at spiral dynamics stage RED?

[Juressic]

I realized that I'm living in society that is mostly RED, many of my friends are at that stage. They like to steal from others when they get a chance, don't have any respect or empathy for animals, abusing drugs and alcohol daily, they are so much selfish, only have respect for people that they have some interest from, all other people they perceive as stupid and they like to gossip and make fun of others a lot, because they like to think  that they are better then others. Even they don't care for their "best" friends. If their friend break-up with his girlfriend for example, they don't mind about his feelings, they are aiming for a chance to fu*k her.

I have some friends at stage ORANGE / GREEN / YELLOW as well, but they are minority. They are quite opposite and spending time with them is so much inspiring,  constructive, calm, respectful..

I didn't realized it before, until I've discovered this concept of spiral dynamics, but I think that socializing with friends at stage RED should be only occasionally.  I don't want to explicitly discard them because I understand them and sometimes they are my only choice for socializing, and I don't mind about their negativity since I'm careful with them, but since they are often destructive as hell, without respect for each other, always competing with everyone, it can't be anything good but having some drunk fun with them here and there.

How do you deal with your RED friends? Are you keeping them on distance, arguing with them or you have explicitly discarded them long ago?

[Danioover9000]

@Juressic

2 hours ago, Juressic said:

I realized that I'm living in society that is mostly RED, many of my friends are at that stage. They like to steal from others when they get a chance, don't have any respect or empathy for animals, abusing drugs and alcohol daily, they are so much selfish, only have respect for people that they have some interest from, all other people they perceive as stupid and they like to gossip and make fun of others a lot, because they like to think  that they are better then others. Even they don't care for their "best" friends. If their friend break-up with his girlfriend for example, they don't mind about his feelings, they are aiming for a chance to fu*k her.

I have some friends at stage ORANGE / GREEN / YELLOW as well, but they are minority. They are quite opposite and spending time with them is so much inspiring,  constructive, calm, respectful..

I didn't realized it before, until I've discovered this concept of spiral dynamics, but I think that socializing with friends at stage RED should be only occasionally.  I don't want to explicitly discard them because I understand them and sometimes they are my only choice for socializing, and I don't mind about their negativity since I'm careful with them, but since they are often destructive as hell, without respect for each other, always competing with everyone, it can't be anything good but having some drunk fun with them here and there.

How do you deal with your RED friends? Are you keeping them on distance, arguing with them or you have explicitly discarded them long ago?

   What do you mean stage red friends? Do you mean most of your social circle are hustlers or criminals, those that love to dominate and humiliate others? Why are you in a social circle with those types of people?

   If it was me, I'd socialize less and less or just axe the relationship with those at stage red.

[Ulax]

@Juressic I'd say I used to be in a somewhat similar friendship group. I'd personally leave them asap. Their bad vibe will likely be pulling your own vibe down.

[Recursoinominado]

I usually stay away from people like those you described.

Sooner or later, their bullshit will spill on you.

[Juressic]

59 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Juressic

   What do you mean stage red friends? Do you mean most of your social circle are hustlers or criminals, those that love to dominate and humiliate others? Why are you in a social circle with those types of people?

   If it was me, I'd socialize less and less or just axe the relationship with those at stage red.

I mean, they are not dedicated explicit criminals because they are afraid to be, but they will likely screw over anyone who isn't in their group when they get the chance. They see successful criminals as something worthy of admiration and respect. They are also xenophobe nationalist, some of them are Neo-nazi, they gaining max respect, and those don't even respect people from neighbor cities, rather insulting them based on their differences. They especially feel delight when they put someone down from their group, it's their spiritual food, making fun of someone, under the guise that it was just a joke.

@Ulax
They are my neighbors from hood, they are always out there in group, looking for a alcohol, weed or amphetamine, and because I've been socializing a lot before, they were my drinking buddies. At that time, I guess big part of me was RED also, but I was only 18 back then, now I'm 30.
I've realized how bad and boring their vibe is, but also I've become immune of their shit over the years. I don't socialize with them as I used to, maybe once a month now when I see them in a bar, then I just wonder about their worldview, analyzing it, maybe criticizing their beliefs for fun and just enjoying myself, accepting that they are 50% of my society.

 

@Recursoinominado

I agree, that's why I avoid them, especially when they are in a group, but problem is that they have influence on everybody, and then if you are avoiding them, some of my friends that are stage ORANGE / GREEN will connect me to them again, just because of their addiction to weed for example. But anyway, it doesn't bother me, that's how things are. We only have to be careful with them, learn from situations and love them endlessly, even if we decide to punch them in a face, in the name of their spiral growth  

[Jannes]

Your friends highly influence who you are. If you develop yourself I wouldn’t hang out with them. If stage red is so prevalent in your area you can always move. Most cities in western countries are mostly stage orange/green. 

[Carl-Richard]

The tendency is the deeper you get into the drug world, the more Red you'll find. Many of the people I've met through that world were Red, and I live in a Green country.

[trenton]

@Juressic

I would try to avoid people who glorify criminals as well. In practice it can be more difficult than simply cutting the toxic people out of your life. If your more developed friends are wrapping you back up with them, then you might need to make a more radical move and even get away from them or tell them the full story.

If you want to be a conscious human being, then These are not the kinds of people you should be associating yourself with. If you truly have an opportunity to get away from this situation, then don't take it for granted. Some people are not as lucky and they can only dream about getting such people out of their lives.

If red is so prevalent in your society, then your personal development could be undermined by having your identity or credit card stolen. I don't say this to scare you. I say this because there are people like your friends who would try to exploit you given the chance. If moving is not an option, then you might need to try something else to minimize contact with such people. Maybe if you know what time they go to the bar, you can minimize this further or go to a different bar.

[DieFree]

Stealing from others, drinking alcohol and using drugs, and the other things you describe are not defining of stage red. This could very easily be state orange. Red is violent, and impressed by displays of power and desires power over others it deems weaker. You can have someone at that stage who never drinks easily. I know many stage red Muslims for instance. 

[Carl-Richard]

@DieFree

You focused on the wrong things. He also mentioned stealing and general emotional immaturity.

[DieFree]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@DieFree

You focused on the wrong things. He also mentioned stealing and general emotional immaturity.

I can accept stealing as somehow related to red. Although I notice they typical won't blantly steal from friends. Maybe a weak punk or those they want to dominate, but there's also an honor culture on the street. Blatant stealing is not red. 

As for emotional immaturity, you need to go further an define that more. I find that many stage red people are broadly aware of the ethics of their community and won't go against that. They don't spend hours on personal introspection and reflecting on their emotions, but is that the same as emotional immaturity? Personally I think a lot of stage yellow people can also fall into the category of emotional immaturity. This ugly stereotype of red as a feeling less brute who impulsively does violence is not helpful to this enlightening model. 

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, DieFree said:

As for emotional immaturity, you need to go further an define that more.

Emotional immaturity as being strongly driven by impulses, hence drug abuse, oppurtunistic stealing, gossiping, making fun of others at their expense, etc.

[Danioover9000]

   Sorry, I feel like SD modal, in this thread, is being used incorrectly. My general advice is, if you feel like you are growing faster and integrating values higher than your social circle, and feel that they are holding you bafk from actualizing your full potential, consider leaving that cirfle over time.

[DieFree]

36 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Emotional immaturity as being strongly driven by impulses, hence drug abuse, oppurtunistic stealing, gossiping, making fun of others at their expense, etc.

Is this unique to red? I feel this is common across all humans yellow and below. 

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, DieFree said:

Is this unique to red? I feel this is common across all humans yellow and below. 

What happens at Blue is you start developing your self-monitoring ability (the superego, the voice of conscience), which informs you about your higher values and who you can aspire to be, and that becomes a new important aspect of your psychology. It's generally a greater awareness of past and future and an unveiling of the concept of personal growth. You start to see that you can become something more than your current self, but it requires sacrifice, namely suppression of some aspects of that self, i.e. your impulsive side. It's not that you lose your emotional impulses (your "id"). That's still there. It's that you develop higher functions that can regulate them (neocortex establishing connections to the limbic system). You can still avoid listening to your conscience, but if you're at Blue or beyond, that will start to feel increasingly bad.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Juressic]

Yeah, I like the famous proverb "You are who you are with", so people should considerate with whom they are spending their time and what they want to become. There are also stage BLUE people in our lives that is dragging us down, in most cases that is our family. But it is also very relative, because their influence on us depends on how mentally strong we are.

[John Paul]

Challenge them to basketball unless they’ll end up fighting 

[Juressic]

On 12/5/2022 at 0:05 AM, John Paul said:

Challenge them to basketball unless they’ll end up fighting 

Haha, they are triggered easily.

Day before yesterday, my stage GREEN friend called me in the bar to watch football match and it didn't went well. I didn't wanted to go in that bar, wanted to suggest other bar, but since he was already there and football match almost started, I went anyway, but I knew where I'm going.  At the end of the night he ended up fighting with a bartender, owner of the bar, (who is totally stage RED, drug abuser, criminal worshiper) Because bartender wanted to steal his money by demanding to pay more then he ordered. Worst part is that he thought he is his friend, gave him trust, but I totally knew that he is a absolute moron who have to be kept at a distance.

I was pissed off too, I hesitated whether to beat shit out of bartender or not. I been thinking 'if I beat shit out of him now, It would be hard to forget about him, I don't want him to be a part of my mind, better way is to calm down situation and never come here again'. I'm glad that my friend learned the lesson, but in harder way, so he agreed that he won't come there anymore too. 

Today I'm still feeling some anger about that situation, because I hate injustice and preferably I'd like someone to destroy that bartender and his bar, which will probably happen, because it's how natural selection works. 

You see, even though I'm conscious about morons, keeping them away successfully, my friends stage GREEN/ORANGE still involving me into shit situations. I realized that I have to start avoiding my friends while they are calling me from a 'sewers', because clean and calm mind is one of my greatest values.

Ahh man 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Juressic