Intelligence, Wisdom, Love

[Razard86]

So I recently watched Leo's clip here 

What I would define intelligence as is  the ability to recognize or become aware of truth. I would define love as the absolute infinite expression of truth. I would define wisdom as the ability to actualize the recognition of truth towards the highest expression. This means that all intelligence would mirror how nature works. Nature is self-cleaning, nature is self-nurturing, nature is self-sustaining, nature is self-growing.

So we would use the totality of our resources to providing for others in as similar a fashion as nature does for all of life. I've used an example of the human body as a model. If society could mirror the human body, or the earth's model of how it functions we would be aligning ourselves with how reality functions. What's your take on this? 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

what you say is brilliant, especially the first part, when you define intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence=capacity to recognize the truth. Good. 

but the second, when you say that society could be organized by imitating nature... this is the basic idea of the Nazis. nature has no mercy. natural intelligence says: the individual is irrelevant. because it really doesn't exist. the ant does not count, only the anthill, and beyond that only the species, and beyond that, only life. 

If society use the human body as a mirror, we should kill the old people, the sick people, etc. 

[Razard86]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

what you say is brilliant, especially the first part, when you define intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence=capacity to recognize the truth. Good. 

but the second, when you say that society could be organized by imitating nature... this is the basic idea of the Nazis. nature has no mercy. natural intelligence says: the individual is irrelevant. because it really doesn't exist. the ant does not count, only the anthill, and beyond that only the species, and beyond that, only life. 

If society use the human body as a mirror, we should kill the old people, the sick people, etc. 

Breaking The Wall.... could you not say....we already do? Also saying nature doesn't care about the individual....is an egoic perspective. From my perspective....nature cares about every individual. Human nature....is also nature. Have not humans strived with each generation to be more and more loving? Look at where humanity was and where they are now?

Also....why do you believe death is bad? Is not the whole spiritual path about realizing that death is infinite love? Is not the entire source of what we call evil stem from the fear of death? How do you supposed humanity can ever stop being selfish if they are still afraid of death? 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Also....why do you believe death is bad? Is not the whole spiritual path about realizing that death is infinite love? Is not the entire source of what we call evil stem from the fear of death? How do you supposed humanity can ever stop being selfish if they are still afraid of death? 

I didn't say it's bad, just that it's the Nazi social perspective: nature is absolutely efficient. nature practices eugenics completely ruthlessly. in nature there is nothing like morality. So, to reach our full potential as a society, let's imitate nature. this is basically the ideology of Hitler and his collaborators.

They forgot something very important, that's why it was an aberration. the human being was expelled from the garden of eden, for worse or for better . It is no longer governed by the laws of nature, but by others, very different: The laws of karma.

the human being, to reach his full potential says: I don't care about survival. I don't care about maximum efficiency. the only thing that matters is absolute integrity. he was expelled from the garden of eden to have the option of entering the garden of true heaven. to be god

Edited November 28, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I didn't say it's bad, just that it's the Nazi social perspective: nature is absolutely efficient. nature practices eugenics completely ruthlessly. in nature there is nothing like morality. So, to reach our full potential as a society, let's imitate nature. this is basically the ideology of Hitler and his collaborators.

They forgot something very important, that's why it was an aberration. the human being was expelled from the garden of eden, for worse or for better . It is no longer governed by the laws of nature, but by others, very different: The laws of karma.

the human being, to reach his full potential says: I don't care about survival. I don't care about maximum efficiency. the only thing that matters is absolute integrity. he was expelled from the garden of eden to have the option of entering the garden of true heaven. to be god

Breakingthewall you just compared nature to Nazism? Explain to me how nature and eugenics is the same? Eugenics is the systemic targeting process of killing off an entire race. Nature outside of human nature does not engage in Eugenics. Nature just freely expresses itself as it is, and whether you can adapt or not determines whether you can survive. Humans are the part of nature that acts in opposition. 

Also absolute integrity is maximum efficency. Absolute integrity is the complete integration of all working parts, which is what nature does at all times. Even human's lack of integration is absolute integration because the reason humans SUFFER is because they act in opposition. If humans stopped acting in opposition they wouldn't suffer. Suffering is not inherent its a consequence of acting in opposition. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

 

Have you seriously not understood what I wanted to say, or is it impossible for you to agree with another person? ? it's completely obvious. Eugenics is not the extermination of a race, it is the elimination of defective individuals. sick, weak, useless to society. this occurs in nature automatically. a deer if born with 3 legs does not survive even 5 minutes. 

the Nazis advocated eugenics to improve the race since without natural selection, according to them, the race degenerates. They also wanted to impose their race on others since in nature the species that is imposed endures and the one that doesnt become extinct 

The Nazis were stupid and superficial. They didnt understand what means to be human

Edited November 28, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:16 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Have you seriously not understood what I wanted to say, or is it impossible for you to agree with another person? ? it's completely obvious. Eugenics is not the extermination of a race, it is the elimination of defective individuals. sick, weak, useless to society. this occurs in nature automatically. a deer if born with 3 legs does not survive even 5 minutes. 

the Nazis advocated eugenics to improve the race since without natural selection, according to them, the race degenerates. They also wanted to impose their race on others since in nature the species that is imposed endures and the one that doesnt become extinct 

The Nazis were stupid and superficial. They didnt understand what means to be human

Breakingthewall.....if you cannot understand how comparing Nazis to how Nature takes care of the weak then you don't understand why Nature does what it does. Nature gets rid of the weak, or sick if they will cause the rest to die. If right now people had a sickness that would kill anyone who comes into contact with them in 5 hours and we were unable to find a cure, our only solution would be to kill them all or the entire human race would die off pretty quickly. 

Why does the body kill off cancer cells? Because those cells will kill off the entire body. The difference between infinite intelligence and human intelligence is we would be so compassionate that we would allow something to kill us off. That's why most leaders in survival based environments end up being narcissists because they are the only people with the ability to make the hard decisions. 

Sometimes you can be too caring too a fault and cause an entire race of people to be killed off. Its the age old question do you sacrifice the few for the many, and the answer is it depends. If it cannot be negotiated or figured out, then the few have to die for the many. But if you can find a way you do it.

Nazis had no scientific backing for their claims or beliefs, it was just pure hatred off of speculation. Nature does not speculate, nature is all knowing.

[Nilsi]

Intelligence is having your priorites straight.

[Razard86]

11 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Intelligence is having your priorites straight.

And what would that entail?  Priorities are always contextual. Are you saying making sure your thoughts, actions, are in alignment with your purpose? Because if that is what you are saying I agree. The issue is though to be in perfect alignment your actions would have to be alignment with how Nature works otherwise you are working against reality which will prevent your desired result. 

Hmmmm I just realized something from this interaction, amazing!! I'm learning something every time!! Its so funny how just a change in how you are looking at something always changes its meaning. This thing called life is so funny!!!

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Why does the body kill off cancer cells? Because those cells will kill off the entire body

that's exactly what the Nazis thought. Do you think their wish was to be evil? they thought they were just. They were stupid, they couldn't see beyond the superficial.

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

that's exactly what the Nazis thought. Do you think their wish was to be evil? they thought they were just. They were stupid, they couldn't see beyond the superficial.

The Nazis never tested their beliefs, there was no research involved no search for truth. You cannot compare the Nazis to nature perfectly because all Nazism is, is an aspect of human nature. Jesus and Buddha is also part of human nature. You are taking one part of human nature and applying it to the absolute without considering its opposite.

Also absolute integrity is absolute efficiency because the greatest integrity is the absolute unison of all parts working together. Nature is so efficient, that even human dysfunction is calculated and still combined in unison to work together with maximum efficiency, using suffering as a buffer to gain compliance. 

Our problem as humans is we judge suffering and pain, not realizing that without it, we would have killed each other off a long time ago. Pain and suffering is the only reason the human race is still here. If humans had their way, they would try to figure out a way to get rid of pain and suffering...and then the human race would go extinct. 

[Nilsi]

32 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

And what would that entail?  Priorities are always contextual. Are you saying making sure your thoughts, actions, are in alignment with your purpose? Because if that is what you are saying I agree. The issue is though to be in perfect alignment your actions would have to be alignment with how Nature works otherwise you are working against reality which will prevent your desired result. 

Intelligence is not an algorithm.

In the relative domain, your priorities should be highly dynamic and context-dependent.

In the absolute domain, there is of course a certain "divine order" to things, independent of the context.   

Knowing when to apply which, is another mark of intelligence   

[Nilsi]

I apologize for the corny Zen wisdom. I have been away for too long

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

 

 

26 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The Nazis never tested their beliefs

no belief can be tested 

26 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You cannot compare the Nazis to nature

The Nazis though that they imitate the nature, not that the nature imitates the Nazis.  I'm not saying that they do, just that their ideas were to imitate the nature

The Nazis were quite spiritual, they  thought they were making a spiritual revolution. in nature strength triumphs and weakness dies, therefore, if you die, it is because you were weak, that is, you had to die. that you live would be an aberration. for them it is obvious. the right wing drinks from Nazism. beauty, appearance, ostentation, show that you deserve to live. the ugliness, the weakness, that you deserve to die. they are superficial! for them it is obvious. donald trump is a nazi, there are millions of nazis. Nazism is just superficiality, not evilness. Well, evilness = superficiality. for them it is absolutely obvious and whoever does not understand it is crazy.

But look, for example, a bird that is more beautiful that another have more possibilities to reproduce, any animal that is stronger has more possibilities to survive, their pov looks obvious. Their mistake is that they don't understand what means to be human

Edited November 29, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

54 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Intelligence is not an algorithm.

In the relative domain, your priorities should be highly dynamic and context-dependent.

In the absolute domain, there is of course a certain "divine order" to things, independent of the context.   

Knowing when to apply which, is another mark of intelligence   

I agree completely, never said it was an algorithm , and you are correct nature is highly dynamic and context-dependent which is why intuition is so important. One of our biggest issue is we close ourselves off from reality's communication because we judge it ordinary and dead. Many people think the air is dead, the ground is dead, not realizing it is equally alive as their own body. We really need to get rid of the material model of reality or at least update it.