Jed McKenna Question

[Thought Art]

In Jed’s book Theory of Everything he says the pursuit of truth is not spiritual endeavour and I’m wondering if anyone can help me clarify  this?

To me personally, the pursuit of God Realization and Truth truth is spiritual. 
 

Thanks for your help.

[Gesundheit2]

He's just saying throw away all your fantasies of what you think Truth is, cuz it's not what you think it is.

When you say truth is spiritual, that implies certain thoughts and/or emotions that you are associating with Truth as if Truth could not exist without them. Notice these thoughts and emotions, and throw them in the garbage. They are not Truth, but rather an invention of the mind/body.

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 Interesting. 
 

He says the Consciousness is God, and that all things which are not held in consciousness are false: history, religion, others, etc

Anyway concepts or forms of knowledge are false, only consciousness is true. So, human spirituality can’t be true. I think.

Dies that align with what you mean?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Gesundheit2]

@Thought Art Really? I don't remember consciousness as a component of Jed McKenna's teachings. In fact, I think he would say that consciousness is just another human invention.

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 Nah, in his book Jed Meckenna’s Theory of Everything Consciousness is all there is. He goes on about it in every chapter. That all there is is consciousness, and whatever is the case is True therefore Truth is consciousness is God. 
 

In fact, consciousness is not even human. Consciousness dreams up being human and consciousness is first order.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Gesundheit2 Nah, I’m his book Jed Meckenna’s Theory if Everything Consciousness is all there is. He goes in about it in every chapter. That all there is is consciousness, and whatever is the case is True therefore Truth is consciousness is God. 
 

In fact, consciousness is not even human. Consciousness dreams up being human and consciousness is first order.

Obviously

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura It’s gonna take me a few more imaginary years to really accept it and integrate that. C-Rex, hard to be tamed after 20+ years in U-Rex

[Moksha]

I haven't read "Theory of Everything", but the irony of truth is that ultimately it can't be grokked by the human mind. There are so many threads on this forum, filled with treatises on truth, but most of them fail to realize that truth is the unassailable Mystery that cannot be conceived, only directly realized. Any concept limited to the relative universe cannot be true. If you want to realize truth, let go of every concept and look within, to the Consciousness hidden in the deep cave of the heart, and waiting to discover itself.

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.

- Tao Te Ching, first sentence

[Leo Gura]

Truth is just your experiential field.

It could not be simpler.

Don't make Truth into some kind of inaccesible abstraction.

Look at your hand. That's Absolute Truth.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Leo Gura

[StarStruck]

Truth is in the now and thus is direct experience by your consciousness. 

Theories about the truth is done by the three dimensional mind which operates in the conceptual time/space. Using the mind to catch the truth is like having sex with a condom. It is not skin of skin.

I recently read one book by McKenna and I didn’t like it too much. It was still good but I found him beating around the bush a lot. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by StarStruck

[integral]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth is just your experiential field.

It could not be simpler.

Don't make Truth into some kind of inaccesible abstraction.

Look at your hand. That's Absolute Truth.

The truth of what? What is the question?

[Leo Gura]

I'm not talking about conceptual 2nd order truth about some subject. I'm talking about 1st order Truth itself.

Your field of experience is 1st order Truth.

The question is, What is Truth?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

I think the difficulty I have is that C-Rex seems like U-Rex as the content is partly of survival game that involves partaking in the social matrix.

[Thought Art]

By the end of the book I gained the sense that he didn’t really now what reality was and just had a bunch of beliefs despite being hard on beliefs. I can’t help but assume Leo is the same way. I’m throwing you guys out.

One minute Leo says it’s just me, next he says it’s just him, then Jed says it’s just him and then just me. But, then he says there could be an infinite amount of absolute consciousnesses, but, wasn’t it just consciousness? I’m not conscious of these things. Then Leo says he doesn’t have his own consciousness. But claims to trip and have God Realizations. Okay, so a dream character is some pseudo teacher for infinite mind to dream some reason it awakened because it had this teacher? That’s weird. And, why me? Why this dumbass? 
 

God, ya make no fucking sense! Give me a call sometime and clarify a few things. All I have a are idiots 
authors and Gurus and I’d like to speak to the real deal.

So, basically your both fired when it comes to truth. 
 

If God and Truth has a number in the yellow pages please send me the number.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

6 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Okay, so a dream character is some pseudo teacher for infinite mind to dream some reason it awakened because it had this teacher?

I hear you, and you are wise to be skeptical of all teachings. You can only see if they point you toward Self-realization or not. Once they do, let even those teachings go.

Bhikkhus, the teaching is merely a vehicle to describe the truth. Don’t mistake it for the truth itself. A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon. The teaching is like a raft that carries you to the other shore. The raft is needed, but the raft is not the other shore. An intelligent person would not carry the raft around on his head after making it across to the other shore. Bhikkhus, my teaching is the raft which can help you cross to the other shore beyond birth and death. Use the raft to cross to the other shore, but don’t hang onto it as your property. Do not become caught in the teaching. You must be able to let it go.

- Thich Nhat Hanh

Consciousness creates the dream, and inhabits each character within the dream, whether Consciousness awakens to itself within the character or not. Sometimes it reveals itself to itself through other characters, but the characters themselves have no will. It is nonsensical, and trying to grok Consciousness will only create confusion. It is only directly realized, when Consciousness decides within the dream that the time is right.

[Thought Art]

@Moksha No, the question is, am I the only consciousness that exists? Is my direct experience without scale? Am I the absolute? It appears so. My mystical experiences suggest so. But, all these dream characters are full of shit. 
 

I understand already that the finger is pointing to the moon. But, they have many logical inconsistencies in what they say about consciousness and the ultimate admit “hmm, I don’t really know” 

 

[Moksha]

24 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Moksha No, the question is, am I the only consciousness that exists? Is my direct experience without scale? Am I the absolute? It appears so. My mystical experiences suggest so. But, all these dream characters are full of shit. 

You are not the only Consciousness that exists. Consciousness is all that exists. It is you, it is me, and it is every being that it creates. It is also beyond the universe. Your direct experience is simply Consciousness realizing itself within your form.

Consciousness is absolute, but you and I are only expressions of it like the waves of an infinite ocean. We are forms in a relative universe, inhabited by Consciousness. Consciousness is within us and is our ultimate identity.

[Godishere]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You are not the only Consciousness that exists. Consciousness is all that exists. It is you, it is me, and it is every being that it creates. It is also beyond the universe. Your direct experience is simply Consciousness realizing itself within your form.

Consciousness is absolute, but you and I are only expressions of it like the waves of an infinite ocean. We are forms in a relative universe, inhabited by Consciousness. Consciousness is within us and is our ultimate identity.

Have you considered teaching? Your posts are on point man! Always love reading your comments and they always resonate with my experience.

[Moksha]

@Godishere Thanks for your kind words, I appreciate it ?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Moksha

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

You are not the only Consciousness that exists. Consciousness is all that exists. It is you, it is me, and it is every being that it creates. It is also beyond the universe. Your direct experience is simply Consciousness realizing itself within your form.

Consciousness is absolute, but you and I are only expressions of it like the waves of an infinite ocean. We are forms in a relative universe, inhabited by Consciousness. Consciousness is within us and is our ultimate identity.

I’ve heard it all before. There is no you. No universe according to Jed. The point is, all this sounds like bullshit belief and hearsay. Not to be rude, it’s just none of this read and anyone tells me is true. 
 

Part of the reason I say this is, you know by now ive watched all of Leo’s videos, read plenty of spiritual books, had awakenings, do regular spiritual practice, and just read a book by Jed McKenna where he went on for 160 plus pages about how consciousness is everything. 
 

Honestly is like I’m trying to fry an egg by putting it in the freezing talking about this here.

The dream cat said “Meow”

If it’s just consciousness then, what universe is there? There isn’t one. My direct experience therefore is everything Now. 
 

what you say makes sense and has truth to it. But, it’s not the answer I’m looking for. I want to KNOW. I’ve had awakenings. But, I have more questions still. 
 

Utlimately, 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thought Art