Enlightment / being Awake its a state of consciousness

[Javfly33]

That means that the fact that you "finally Awoken" doesn't mean much.

If you can not retain the state of consciousness / energy vibration that puts you in Truth/Enlightment, then at any second you could be back at the ego state of consciousness. 

Doesn't matter how "clear" you Awoken, the ego can re-construct itself at any moment. Again, again, and again. That's why people can do 30 psychedelic trips and have awakenings in each one of them yet in daily sober life they are lost in individuality, delusion and fear. Like any other normie.

Of course this is not a pessimistic message, and also not against psychedelics (I think they definitely help in moving towards the right direction) but just a pointer into what is important: Designing a lifestyle (from diet to spiritual-energetic practices ) that can put you in that state of consciousness and keep you there. 

So basically You awakening or your realizations doesn't mean much. What is important is:

When you wake up in the morning, are you in Truth or are you lost in the internal dialogue?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

The problem is, virtually no one has even Awoken deeply enough for 1 minute. Yet they act like all that matters is permanence. You don't even know what consciousness is possible. You have vague fantasies, and all of them are nowhere near radical enough.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

well said. Awakening with psychedelics is not an end, it is a means. a means for an awakened life. What you want is to live in the truth 24 hours a day. psychedelics will indicate your degree of impurity, of lies, of fear. you have to polish yourself and polish your life so that the truth is as close as possible to the surface, so that your life is awake, beautiful, wonderful. without lies and without fear. I don't want to be a psychonaut, I want to use psychedelics to make this life an expression of the truth

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is, virtually no one has even Awoken deeply enough for 1 minute. Yet they act like all that matters is permanence. You don't even know what consciousness is possible. You have vague fantasies, and all of them are nowhere near radical enough.

I don't see how that invalidates my message. I know there is a tremendous difference between the ego normal state of consciousness and a very intense direct connection with the present moment such that the ego mind is eliminated. That feels pretty fucking good, there might be x100 more intense profound states ? Sure. I don't doubt you. But why you want to put the cart before the horse?

Instead of daydreaming with super intense radical states awareness, why not first stabilize in something better than fear and pure delusion? And it's not a personal question, I'm talking generally about humanity, spiritual community obsessed with having "conclusions" and building theories about what is awakening and enlightenment, but within them they are not touching Truth on a daily basis for a significant amount of time.

 

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

well said. Awakening with psychedelics is not an end, it is a means. a means for an awakened life. What you want is to live in the truth 24 hours a day. psychedelics will indicate your degree of impurity, of lies, of fear. you have to polish yourself and polish your life so that the truth is as close as possible to the surface, so that your life is awake, beautiful, wonderful. without lies and without fear. I don't want to be a psychonaut, I want to use psychedelics to make this life an expression of the truth

Good to see you brother. I agree with everything. "Polish your life so that the truth is as close as possible to the surface". Nice .

 

@Tahuti If you are fine settling with that...

 

[Pudgey]

Psychedelics is not a pointer, but a pre-requisite for any profound and radical insight to consciousness.  

Psychedelics can also create increased states of consciousness, which are permanent. 

But, you wouldn't know that if you are still scared of the dark and still leave the lights on at night when you go to bed. 

Morale of the story, most of you are scared shitless of psychedelics and finding anyway to avoid it with bullshit. 

[Flyboy]

This fantasy of "states of consciousness" is one of Leo's fundamental errors in his model of reality, and is a conceptual justification for not doing the real work.  This is NOT what enlightenment is, and no number of trips will shortcut you out of doing the actual difficult work on the path.  ALL HOLDING ON MUST BE LET GO.  All of it.  Holding on to understanding, to "god realization", to being fucking Yoda, to time and space, to omniscience, the whole thing.  Leo is on a dangerous road, and I'll keep saying it.  There's no depth to this thing.  It's beyond the mind entirely.

[roopepa]

Enlightenment is not a state of consciousness.

Enlightenment is consciousness.

No-one becomes awakened, no-one becomes conscious of truth.

On 27.11.2022 at 2:07 PM, Javfly33 said:

So basically You awakening or your realizations doesn't mean much.

Yeah, cause your awakenings and realizations are thought-stories, thought-attachment.

On 27.11.2022 at 2:07 PM, Javfly33 said:

What is important is:

When you wake up in the morning, are you in Truth or are you lost in the internal dialogue?

?

Also, are you open to acknowledge how you're really feeling in every moment? Are you open to acknowledge suffering?

Everyone is waiting for eternity but the Shaman asks: "how about today?"

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

This fantasy of "states of consciousness" is one of Leo's fundamental errors in his model of reality, and is a conceptual justification for not doing the real work.  This is NOT what enlightenment is, and no number of trips will shortcut you out of doing the actual difficult work on the path.  ALL HOLDING ON MUST BE LET GO.  All of it.  Holding on to understanding, to "god realization", to being fucking Yoda, to time and space, to omniscience, the whole thing.  Leo is on a dangerous road, and I'll keep saying it.  There's no depth to this thing.  It's beyond the mind entirely.

Sounds quite accurate. But you never know...let's see where he arrives.

[Moksha]

@Javfly33 I agree with you, and that is the difference between awakening and enlightenment. You are still loosely bound by the dream state, but you are perpetually lucid even within the dream. Deeply present and Self-aware in each moment, as the Conscious witness of the phenomenal universe that you created.

[Carl-Richard]

On 27.11.2022 at 1:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

The problem is, virtually no one has even Awoken deeply enough for 1 minute. Yet they act like all that matters is permanence. You don't even know what consciousness is possible. You have vague fantasies, and all of them are nowhere near radical enough.

Do you still have problems sleeping or are you back to normal?

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you still have problems sleeping or are you back to normal?

11 hours ago, Flyboy said:

 

Yes, and what was that about looking for a camera that would allow you to record the transformation into an alien? That episode is very interesting, on a science level. push the limits, see what happens. since then looking forward to know in detail.  

fortunately it seems that leo is grounded on earth as always, but that little flight is very interesting

[Javfly33]

On 27/11/2022 at 5:33 PM, Pudgey said:

Psychedelics is not a pointer, but a pre-requisite for any profound and radical insight to consciousness.  

Psychedelics can also create increased states of consciousness, which are permanent. 

But, you wouldn't know that if you are still scared of the dark and still leave the lights on at night when you go to bed. 

Morale of the story, most of you are scared shitless of psychedelics and finding anyway to avoid it with bullshit. 

I´ve done plenty of psychedelics, chances are maybe more than you have done.

They can't save ya. They are very powerful tools but you shouldn't have your primordial focus on them.

On 28/11/2022 at 10:29 PM, Flyboy said:

This fantasy of "states of consciousness" is one of Leo's fundamental errors in his model of reality, and is a conceptual justification for not doing the real work.  This is NOT what enlightenment is, and no number of trips will shortcut you out of doing the actual difficult work on the path.  ALL HOLDING ON MUST BE LET GO.  All of it.  Holding on to understanding, to "god realization", to being fucking Yoda, to time and space, to omniscience, the whole thing.  Leo is on a dangerous road, and I'll keep saying it.  There's no depth to this thing.  It's beyond the mind entirely.

Yeap. Couldn't said it better. I mean can't blame him he always said he is a very intellectual / conceptual type of guy. 

I wouldn't say he's in a dangerous road though. Psychedelics tend to be pretty use-regulatory. Meaning if you start doing them too much they stop working altogether.

Although 5-MeO-DMT and similar triptamines with fast routes of administration is another story..maybe those ones can be more easily abused. For the ones that can stomach the consciousness levels on a regular matter of course....