Meditation is not what I thought it was...

[Rasheed]

    Here is my meditation background: Started to meditate at 16, (as I remember, probably 14... truth be told but at 14 I think I meditate only 30 minute a day I probably bumped to 1 hour at 15), I am saying 16 because from 16  I started to do 1 hour meditation per day (I definitely remember that at 16 I did 1 hour, probably at 15 I did anywhere from 30 min to 1 hour per day), at 17: I did 2 hours per day (1 year), at 18 I did 4 hours per day (for 1 year) and at 19 I am doing 2 hours per day, every day right now as well. I followed that regime every day for a year including 4 hours per day. 

   I read many spiritual books including Osho's Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, practiced meditation seriously with great theoretical foundation (basically I know the shit I am doing...) and today, I am reading Om Swami's 'A Million Thoughts' and this guy kind of explained to me right now why I am not super-conscious Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh-type (before that I had doubts why I was not getting this super-conscious results these non dual teachers are selling): That is because there are different levels of meditators, here is the guide: 

Ordinary Path

• Mild meditator is one who holds one or two sessions of meditation in a span of 24 hours, generally at dawn and dusk. The length of an average session of meditation for a mild practitioner is between 30 minutes to an hour.
• Average meditator is one who holds three sessions of meditation in a span of 24 hours. Each session lasts about one hour. If they have been following this regime for a minimum of six months, they can be safely classified as average meditators.

Extraordinary Path

• Keen meditator is the one who meditates an average of four times in span of 24 hours, each session lasting a minimum of one hour. A meditator who meditates unfailingly with this discipline for at least one year can be called a keen meditator and not just someone who does it for a few weeks.
• Intense meditator is the one who holds an average of six sessions of meditation in a span of 24 hours and does so on a regular basis, minimum period being six months. Average session of such a meditator lasts between 60 and 90 minutes. Anything more than that is considered supremely intense.

   Basically I have been anywhere from mild (1-2 hours per day) and keen meditator (4 hours per day) all of these time and that is why I did not had any 'enlightenment'. I was wondering why I am not experiencing super conscious shit Rajneesh talks about and now I know, Osho himself used to sit for like hours on an end in his room meditating even when he was running his cult in Oregon and Pune...Intense meditator level shit.  Om Swami himself said that meditating 1 hour or doing a 4 hour retreats, did not gave him any 'enlightenment' experiences as well.

  Right now, I realize from that meditation to go somewhere it must be done in a retreat settings for months. Like 10 hour meditation per day for 5 months. Om Swami himself did 22 hours of meditation, for 6 months straight. Meanwhile all this time I thought 4 hour per day meditation for a year, or 2 hour meditations for years would lead to super-conscious state and lead to becoming someone like Osho...That happens to be a bullshit. 

(P.S. Fuck yeah, I got all personal development, focus, self-actualization benefits from meditating this much but not enlightenment type of Osho talks about. I can stop thinking but at the same time I cannot sit without a thought for a day like Osho can. I am like: I can stop thinking...then monkey mind will come, stop it and be conscious for respectable duration...)

   I had a plan for meditating 2 hours everyday for 14 years (10,000 hours) but now I realize that won't lead anywhere because to have that super-conscious type of shit enlightenment you must meditate for pro-longed period of time, intensely for like 10 hours a day for 6 months. 

   I think now I understand why Leo says meditation is bullshit. Why he says this non-dual teachers are bullshitting as well. Even though I never taken any psychedelics yet, if what Leo says about 5-MeO is true, all these non dual motherfuckers are bullshitters. Why to sit 10 hours a day for 6 months when with deconstruction and 5-MEO, you can become way more conscious than all these non dual teachers?  

   All I can say that meditation is great for personal development, but at the same time if you have to meditate 3 hours a day in order to just be average meditator, I mean this is unrealistic. Leo himself advises to meditate 1 hour a day, every day in the past...

   I won't stop my meditation practice, I am still probably going to do at least 1 hour per day, or 2 because meditation is powerful for personal development, self-actualization, emotional mastery, focus, etc...but reading 'A Million Thoughts' really opened my eyes. I still think meditation is number one personal development practice and amazing for self-actualization but for enlightenment, I think Leo is way more correct than non-dual teachers. If 5-MeO and psychedelics are real deal, I don't think non-dual gurus will advise it because they will put them out of business real quick...

  And another  question I had : What will 2 hours of meditation per day for 14 years lead? Does it lead to same state individual reaches if one meditates for 10 hours a day for 6 months straight without failing? Now that is a question Om Swami does not answer in a book, but I only read half of it maybe he answers it there I don't know.

Correct guys if I am wrong.

Thanks. 

[Rasheed]

P.S.

At the same time, don't think that I am bullshitting meditation. MEDITATION IS STILL FUCKING AMAZING but for:

• Self-Actualization
• Personal Development
• Self-Improvement
• Fulfillment
• Reprogramming one's mind
• Living consciously
• Psychology

I am simply discussing meditation here in ENLIGTHENMENT, RELIGION, SPIRITUALITY, CONSCIOUSNESS WORK context, like you gonna get enlightened and never get incarnated again, Gautama Buddha type of shit. 

 

[Guest Edvardas]

Osho was not meditating when he ran his org, he has already arived, meditation was his base state. 

Yes, DMT will skyrocket you for a moment, but if you want to lock in the enlightened state, to liberate out of samsara, you will have to sit for those 6 months in 10hr+ meditation.  

Buckle up, it's not easy. 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Edvardas

[Leo Gura]

Meditation is not bullshit.

It's important.

You simply won't reach the highest consciousness with it.

Meditation gets less bullshitty if you do it hardcore, in retreat fashion.

An hour of daily meditation will basically get you nowhere even after 30 years. But a 10-day nonstop retreat will be very powerful.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Rasheed]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Meditation is not bullshit.

It's important.

You simply won't reach the highest consciousness with it.

Meditation gets less bullshitty if you do it hardcore, in retreat fashion.

An hour of daily meditation will basically get you nowhere even after 30 years. But a 10-day nonstop retreat will be very powerful.

So, 2 hours of meditating even for 15 years won't get me anywhere, retreats and 6 month of 10+ hours of intense meditation is necessary to get what non-duality is talking about.

P.S. I think 1 hour a day meditation is amazing for personal development and self-actualization work but not for consciousness work...as I concluded.

30 minutes ago, Edvardas said:

Osho was not meditating when he ran his org, he has already arived, meditation was his base state. 

Yes, DMT will skyrocket you for a moment, but if you want to lock in the enlightened state, to liberate out of samsara, you will have to sit for those 6 months in 10hr+ meditation.  

Buckle up, it's not easy. 

 

I meant Osho before he started to run ashram, he spent hours in meditation from like age 12 and up. And then he kept it up his entire life, that is what I meant. I know that he was already woke when he built his cult, of course...

[bazera]

@Leo Gura

Quote

An hour of daily meditation will basically get you nowhere even after 30 years

Don't you see any benefit from an hour of daily meditation? 

I'm not talking about Awakening or mystical experiences. Maybe increasing a baseline of awareness bit by bit, or helping to master emotions.

[axiom]

@Rasheed The belief that you can do something to get somewhere, and that some type of extreme practice is what is needed to awaken is exactly what keeps people from awakening.

In the same way, the massive focus these days on mental health / identity is the very thing that makes people so unhappy.

Noone can awaken from the dream of seeking a better experience if all they do is seek a better experience. 

But the same logic applies to 5MEO insofar as it becomes a preoccupation or a religion.

As such, any notion of intense practice or intense commitment being necessary is complete nonsense. More often than not, this strengthens and reinforces the dream by lending credence to it.

Edited November 25, 2022 by axiom

[Rasheed]

3 minutes ago, axiom said:

@Rasheed The belief that you can do something to get somewhere, and that some type of extreme practice is what is needed to awaken is exactly what keeps people from awakening.

In the same way, the massive focus these days on mental health / identity is the very thing that makes people so unhappy.

Noone can awaken from the dream of seeking a better experience if all they do is seek a better experience. 

But the same logic applies to 5MEO insofar as it becomes a preoccupation or a religion.

As such, any notion of intense practice or intense commitment being necessary is complete nonsense. More often than not, this is exactly what keeps people in the dream.

Om Swami won’t agree with you upon that point…Then why did Buddha left for 6 years,  Mahavira 12, Om Swami meditated 15,000 hours…? Also, why did Leo do over 200+ psychedelic trips?

Edited November 25, 2022 by Rasheed

[axiom]

@Rasheed Whatever Om Swami may or may not think (or may / may not have done) makes no difference to awakening.

Buddha left for six years because he left for six years. Buddha, Mahavira, Om Swami, and you - all are dream characters. 

[Rasheed]

5 minutes ago, axiom said:

@Rasheed Whatever Om Swami may or may not think (or may / may not have done) makes no difference to awakening.

Buddha left for six years because he left for six years. Buddha, Mahavira, Om Swami, and you - all are dream characters. 

 

[Rasheed]

8 minutes ago, axiom said:

@Rasheed Whatever Om Swami may or may not think (or may / may not have done) makes no difference to awakening.

Buddha left for six years because he left for six years. Buddha, Mahavira, Om Swami, and you - all are dream characters. 

[Thought Art]

Even just 10 minutes of meditation a day you will notice changes. 
 

Some people can’t meditate 3 minutes 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Rasheed said:

So, 2 hours of meditating even for 15 years won't get me anywhere,

Depends how your brain is wired.

For some people it can work.

1 hour ago, Rasheed said:

retreats and 6 month of 10+ hours of intense meditation is necessary to get what non-duality is talking about.

A single rigorous 10-day retreat can get you to see what nonduality is talking around.

But nonduality is not God-Realization.

1 hour ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura

Don't you see any benefit from an hour of daily meditation? 

I'm not talking about Awakening or mystical experiences. Maybe increasing a baseline of awareness bit by bit, or helping to master emotions.

There are minor human benefits, but not serious existential understanding -- which is my primary concern.

[Rasheed]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Depends how your brain is wired.

For some people it can work.

A single rigorous 10-day retreat can get you to see what nonduality is talking around.

But nonduality is not God-Realization.

There are minor human benefits, but not serious existential understanding -- which is my primary concern.

Does 6 month, hardcore 10+ hour meditation lead to God-realization? If not, and if meditation cannot lead to God-Realization, then what's the point? 

When I said meditation is great for self-actualization, I meant the same thing as you Leo for human benefits, but of course for serious existential understanding that is ain't enough...I am the proof for that for example.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

Does 6 month, hardcore 10+ hour meditation lead to God-realization?

There are many degrees of God-Realization.

The highest degrees you will never reach through meditation. The milder ones you can. Mild ones are still pretty good and worthwhile.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Rasheed]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of God-Realization.

The highest degrees you will never reach through meditation. The milder ones you can. Mild ones are still pretty good and worthwhile.

Thanks you, got it. 

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Meditation gets less bullshitty if you do it hardcore, in retreat fashion.

An hour of daily meditation will basically get you nowhere even after 30 years. But a 10-day nonstop retreat will be very powerful.

Absolutely agree ??

Edited November 25, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Zeroguy]

@Gesundheit2 Like you was at the retreat so you know.

[ValiantSalvatore]

Micro-retreats are also quiet fine, if you are serious to meditate approx 8-10h on a weekend, multiple times and then take real retreats + do psyches, that would basically be "overload" . I can average around 6-8h on a strategic weekend retreat per day. 10:45h is how long a goenka retreat goes per day. Talking about meditation and yoga definitely is motivating, to even do it strategically. For example a 4h sit on the weekend and doing psyches etc. 

I still love my 8h sit on LSD was fking mind breaking. Also very disgusting in terms of working through my heavy ego. Just talking about this stuff defintitely gets my hyped to continue with my schedule, this is insane. Dunno from all the DMT research I heard it's the most profound experience in terms of realizing what is god possible. I just hope that Leo can teach it in a way where more "average" humans can achieve it with patience and dilligence, as there are billions of roadblocks and I notice how my life purpose might dovetail into this, ideally. I just hope I don't shoot myself into the foot, as I was unable and I am unable to twist myself to a pretzle. Doing some kriya yoga showed me how powerful all of this stuff is. Just reaching mild god-realizations makes the effort worth it 100%. Hope I can finally use the NN-DMT I bought without negating my life purpose to heavily, I am pretty sure doing online-retreats with psyches is also quiet effective, I did not try it yet, although I did it once for a 4h session and it was quiet nice. 

Definitely being a psychonaut is worth it with experience. Love your work Leo keep going! I notice I was fast asleep because of human bullshit, hope I can get out of it soon. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[bambi]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of God-Realization.

The highest degrees you will never reach through meditation. The milder ones you can. Mild ones are still pretty good and worthwhile.

The goal of all this Unification, Symbiosis and Harmony within our Universe, meditation is a great tool for people to find contentment, perspective, humility and connectedness, and such is a great tool for the goal, do you agree?