Why God Allows Suffering

[Razard86]

Ever have a friend who is suffering emotionally and you tried to cheer them up? The more and more you pushed and prodded the more they resisted? Ever notice you may have gotten frustrated and even angry? Notice how they might even feel like you are attacking them as a result? Its funny, you are partially angry at them of course, but ultimately you are angry at yourself because you are powerless. Because you cannot accept that they are unhappy you become unhappy.

Why? Because you identify with them and view happiness as good and sadness and depression as bad. I get it...this is something I still struggle with. There are times I am okay with the suffering of those I care about...because I understand that it has to be the way it is. But other times....I allow myself to feel into their suffering and it hurts. But what I realize most of all, is I cannot force another to stop suffering. And if I do...I actually increase their suffering. So the greatest form of love I can show....is compassion...to be present with them in their suffering. And...that can be hard, it can be frightening, but that is what love is. 

How do you know if someone loves you? They are able to be present when you suffer. They don't disappear when you have bad times, they are present through the ups and the downs. The greatest form of love is to allow someone to just BE....themselves. Be themselves when they mess up, when they are foolish, when they are scared, depressed, judgmental, hypocritical, most times you attempt to control another you are actually coming across to them as unloving even though you are doing it out of love. Often when you want to protect another you do it by force when things become overwhelming for you, but it doesn't mean it will be seen as protection, often times it can be perceived as you not thinking they are strong enough, or good enough and are some how defective. 

So the greatest love, is to allow another to suffer. Their suffering bothers you because their suffering becomes your suffering, but some times the greatest love is to suffer in silence with them.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Razard86

[thisintegrated]

I like this topic, Leo did a great video on it.

 

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Why God Allows Suffering?

Basically because it would be evil to deny you of your opportunity to discover unconditional happiness.

Can't get enlightened without first enlightening your whole body with fire

[Leo Gura]

How else would you stay alive long enough to appreciate life?

If humans were intelligent they wouldn't need the mechanism of suffering to do the right things.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

From my perspective there is no God. It’s just another concept. 

[Holykael]

Suffering is allowed because it's a part of infinity. God doesn't deny anything even if it sucks 

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, How to be wise said:

From my perspective there is no God. It’s just another concept. 

There not being a God is also another concept, its the concept of no God.

 

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How else would you stay alive long enough to appreciate life?

If humans were intelligent they wouldn't need the mechanism of suffering to do the right things.

^Well if they weren't intelligent, suffering wouldn't work either. They are intelligent, they just avoid love as you have already explained they view the greatest form of love as death. Humans misuse their intelligence, which you could say is a lack of intelligence from one perspective, but from another perspective if they lacked intelligence....they could never awaken either. 

So its both Leo which you already know, I just noticed you like looking at humans as dumb monkeys. I don't see that at all, I see intelligent beings scared out of their mind. 

13 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I like this topic, Leo did a great video on it.

 

Basically because it would be evil to deny you of your opportunity to discover unconditional happiness.

Can't get enlightened without first enlightening your whole body with fire

Well Death= unconditional happiness and enlightenment as well lol. Also that Polar Bear Avatar....Polar Bears are so got damn dangerous lol. 

 

[thisintegrated]

47 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Well Death= unconditional happiness and enlightenment..

..of the what? There's noone left to be enlightened ..unless there is, in which case whatever was suffering has benefitted from the suffering and moved closer to enlightenment.

If you wanna know the specifics, look into Tom Campbell's work.

 

Quote

Also that Polar Bear Avatar....Polar Bears are so got damn dangerous lol. 

Tell that to @AtheisticNonduality, who's responsible for this sudden polar bear outbreak.

Edited November 25, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Dialogue between Ramana Maharshi and Paramhansa Yogananda

Swami Yogananda with four others arrived at 8.45 a.m . . . The group had lunch in the Asramam.

Mr. C. R. Wright, his secretary, asked: How shall I realise God?
M.: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external?

D.: What is this Self again?
M.: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. ‘I am’ is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement “I AM THAT I AM” in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There are other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM. The Absolute Being is what is – It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self.

D.: Why are there good and evil?
M.: They are relative terms. There must be a subject to know the good and evil. That subject is the ego. Trace the source of the ego. It ends in the Self. The source of the ego is God. This definition of God is probably more concrete and better understood by you.

D.: So it is. How to get Bliss?
M.: Bliss is not something to be got. On the other hand you are always Bliss. This desire is born of the sense of incompleteness. To whom is this sense of incompleteness? Enquire. In deep sleep you were blissful: Now you are not so. What has interposed between that Bliss and this non-bliss? It is the ego. Seek its source and find you are Bliss. There is nothing new to get. You have, on the other hand, to get rid of your ignorance which makes you think that you are other than Bliss. For whom is this ignorance? It is to the ego. Trace the source of the ego. Then the ego is lost and Bliss remains over. It is eternal. You are That, here and now . . . That is the master key for solving all doubts. The doubts arise in the mind. The mind is born of the ego. The ego rises from the Self. Search the source of the ego and the Self is revealed. That alone remains. The universe is only expanded Self. It is not different from the Self.

D.: What is the best way of living?
M.: It differs according as one is a Jnani [knower] or ajnani. A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self. All are in the Self. It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body. If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self. The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross. If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle. If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite. There is nothing else to see different from the Self.

He thanked Maharshi. He was told that the best way of thanking is to remain always as the Self.

Later the yogi [Yogananda] asked : How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be effected? What are the instructions to be given them?
Maharshi: They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be any instruction en masse.

Yogananda: Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?
Maharshi: Suffering is the way for Realisation of God.

Yogananda: Should He not ordain it differently?
Maharshi: It is the way.

Yogananda: Are yoga, religion, etc., antidotes to suffering?
Maharshi: Who suffers? What is suffering?

(No answer. Finally the Yogi rose up, prayed for Sri Bhagavan’s blessings for his own work and expressed great regret for his hasty return. He looked very sincere and devoted and even emotional.)

[Razard86]

On 11/25/2022 at 0:12 PM, thisintegrated said:

..of the what? There's noone left to be enlightened ..unless there is, in which case whatever was suffering has benefitted from the suffering and moved closer to enlightenment.

If you wanna know the specifics, look into Tom Campbell's work.

 

Tell that to @AtheisticNonduality, 

That's what enlightenment is, there there is one. Only one self. All is self. Even no self is also self. So no one being there, is also one being there.

Why? Because all there is....is being, expressing itself infinitely.

[Breakingthewall]

On 25/11/2022 at 8:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

How else would you stay alive long enough to appreciate life?

If humans were intelligent they wouldn't need the mechanism of suffering to do the right things.

This makes no sense. Superficial. Humans are exactly how they should be, otherwise they wouldn't be like that. 

The question of why there is suffering, which is enormous, there are oceans of suffering in humanity, is not banal. imo suffering exists because it is depth. In the will of existence to be, suffering is not spared, because suffering deepens in being as much, or perhaps more, than joy

Edited November 26, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall

Most people do not drastically go from one to the other. They go through a prolonged transitional period where they are partly still the suffering entity, and partly the liberated consciousness. So that can go on for quite a while…You reach a point where you suddenly realize that suffering is optional. And you also realize that you needed to go through quite a bit of suffering to come to this realization. Suffering is necessary until you realize that suffering is unnecessary…There is vast suffering on the planet. It has a purpose.

- Eckhart Tolle

[thisintegrated]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

That's what enlightenment is, there there is one. Only one self. All is self. Even no self is also self. So no one being there, is also one being there.

Why? Because all there is....is being, expressing itself infinitely.

In the big picture, yes.  But the big picture isn't all there is.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Humans are exactly how they should be

Exactly. So stop whining about your suffering.

[Bobby_2021]

God needs to take a break from the infinite bliss. That's why suffering is imagined by God. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

On 11/25/2022 at 10:31 AM, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Yogananda: Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?

How can God ordain the universal realization of God if the whole problem is that God is unaware that he is God?

God is not some other thing. God is you. The reason God cannot wake you up is precisely because you are God! God cannot force anyone to wake up because to wake up one has to want to wake up. If God does not want to wake up, how can God wake up? If you decide to dream, that's God deciding to dream. And so God's will is done. And if you set your heart and mind to Awaken, so too God's will will be done. God's Will passes right through you! But you won't understand this until after Awakening.

That's the whole problem. It's like you're trying lift up a carpet on which you are standing. And you can't understand why the carpet refuses to move. And so you ask, "Why doesn't God will this carpet to move?" You are in your own way.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Roy]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How can God ordain the universal realization of God is the whole problem is that God is unaware that he is God?

God is not some other thing. God is you. The reason God cannot wake you up is precisely because you are God! God cannot force anyone to wake up because to wake up one has to want to wake up. If God does not want to wake up, how can God wake up? If you decide to dream, that's God deciding to dream. And so God's will is done. And if you set your heart and mind to Awaken, so too God's will will be done. God's Will passes right through you! But you won't understand this until after Awakening.

That's the whole problem. It's like you're trying lift up a carpet on which you are standing. And you can't understand why the carpet refuses to move. And so you ask, "Why doesn't God will this carpet to move?" You are in your own way.

This is an incredible quote. Should be printed, framed, and put on a wall in some important place!

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

This is an incredible quote. Should be printed, framed, and put on a wall in some important place!

Lol.....so God should print and frame this and put this on a wall? God would do this....and still ask itself these questions. Why? Because God....doesn't like this message. God loves to have "others" in which to play this identity game with itself. The biggest obstacle to God's awakening...is God's attachment to "other." This one attachment is so strong....its actually the cause of God going to sleep, and the reason it is so hard to wake up.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly. So stop whining about your suffering.

Agree 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How can God ordain the universal realization of God if the whole problem is that God is unaware that he is God?

God is not some other thing. God is you. The reason God cannot wake you up is precisely because you are God! God cannot force anyone to wake up because to wake up one has to want to wake up. If God does not want to wake up, how can God wake up? If you decide to dream, that's God deciding to dream. And so God's will is done. And if you set your heart and mind to Awaken, so too God's will will be done. God's Will passes right through you! But you won't understand this until after Awakening.

That's the whole problem. It's like you're trying lift up a carpet on which you are standing. And you can't understand why the carpet refuses to move. And so you ask, "Why doesn't God will this carpet to move?" You are in your own way.

Great reading 

[decentralized]

I recently saw a YouTube comment from the son of a policeman who had to take care of Josef Fritzl's daughter and her children after 24 years of their captivity.

The father cried for hours to his son repeating "There is no God."

It's sickening to see how far Evil goes and what's the purpose of all this suffering, if there is any. I also sometimes find myself wondering why God hate me.

[Razard86]

9 minutes ago, decentralized said:

I recently saw a YouTube comment from the son of a policeman who had to take care of Josef Fritzl's daughter and her children after 24 years of their captivity.

The father cried for hours to his son repeating "There is no God."

It's sickening to see how far Evil goes and what's the purpose of all this suffering, if there is any. I also sometimes find myself wondering why God hate me.

I'm sorry they have to go through this. This can only be understood with distance....each event is constantly shaping and molding on so many levels. Once you get the message it makes sense. Study your own personal life, study it as intensely as ever, and one day....it will all make sense. It really is all love, its just pure unadulterated love...which is ridiculously powerful, and beyond all scope and measure. 

It really just makes sense after awhile...to just surrender to it. Its a shame...but suffering is needed for love to be fully understood. Not in all cases, but majority of cases this is true. The more one goes through suffering and integrates it, the more they understand....everything. It is through my own personal suffering....I have learned all that I have learned. Suffering is the greatest teacher, nothing teaches more profoundly. 

Through suffering I am constantly humbled, I am constantly given a more accurate perspective, and my lens continues to open more and more. Suffering actually increases my love, I do not love from an egoic perspective the feeling of suffering...but I do love the effects of suffering on my ego. My ego grows exponentially the more it suffers. It grows in that it becomes more fluid, less rigid, and more accepting to all that is.