What guarantees the consistency of reality ?

[Someone here]

50 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

Laws of physics are consciousness, they are the patterns of consciousness, and when I say "belief", I'm talking about a very deep level of your psyche, not like when people say "I believe this, I believe that". But you cannot understand this by mere thinking, because your mind will take you anywhere and convince you about anything that, it requires the experiential understanding of what I'm saying. So, philosophizing, in that sense, will help you just to an extent, but after that point you need to think about what thinking itself is, and, maybe, that can help you. 

 

 But you are also philosophizing so you are not escaping this problem.

I still stand by my conviction..Believing in something CAN NOT make it a reality any more than giving an inanimate object a name can give it sentience. However, the things you believe DO influence the way you perceive the world. And the way you perceive the world has a huge influence over which parts of reality you’re attentive to vs which parts you ignore. Ie, if you believe that something is real (or possible) you are much more likely to observe evidence about it in reality.

Eg. If you believe that Santa is real/possible you will notice things in reality that support (or disprove) your belief; sleigh bells ringing on Christmas Eve, mysterious presents around the Christmas tree, those mysterious presents disappearing when you move out of your parents home

[Someone here]

29 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I told you in the past I know I am full of shit....have you realized that you too are full of shit? Or do you still believe you aren't?

I think I know what you're talking about because I'm going through a shitty time of my life. 

Life is shit, no wonder why u asked this question. But why? Cuz shits everywhere. You wake up, shit. You get late for college, shit. You laugh, shit. You cry, shit. You fart… shit's coming up. More than half of the life is spent in washroom, half in eating, half in doing things you do not know the meaning of and can't explain why you doing it. Like why tf am I writing this?

 So yeah life is shit. Sometimes other people deal with your shit (mom while changing diapers) but others cannot deal with your shit for your whole life. You learn how to deal with your shit, cuz at the end of the day, its your life, your shit, either get it together, or lose control of your life. Either ways are shitty, but what can I say, life is more shittier than you think. Lol

I searched on google 'Life is shit’, and it showed me results of 'Shitty Life Syndrome’ for a moment I was life “wait what? Wtf” lol it's just some shitty syndrome.

Have you ever noticed a pig? Where does it live?
What's shit to you, is heaven to him.
Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Don't be a human, be a pig. Enjoy the shit all around you and hope that there's more coming your way. Because the more shit you dive into, the more you enjoy. So, enjoy.

If I had enough guts to commit suicide I would. The world is filled with darkness, cruelty and suffering. You can't trust anyone and human beings are selfish. What is the point of life? Some people are destined for misfortune whilst others are lucky. Why do people bring more human beings into this cruel world? Plus we all die anyway and become nothing. So what's the point.?

We're all full of shit man ? 

 

[Thought Art]

Belief 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Belief 

OK..many people seem to suggest that .I want to explore this In more depth :

Your beliefs act as a filter of how you see the World. There are MILLIONS of bits of information coming at you at any one point. If you tried to take ALL of that data in, your mind simply couldn’t cope. So your beliefs act as filters of what you see and what you don’t see.

For instance, tow people can have the same experience and see it differently. You could walk into a store, and the security might swipe a glance at you. If you believe that people are out to get you, then you might take that glance in ENTIRELY the wrong way and believe that the security guard is out to get you. If you have a different believe that most people are nice, you wouldn’t think twice about that glance.

Same reality. Two different points of view.

And whatever you believe your mind tunes into and helps you filter out the millions of bits coming your way into what ‘fits’ into your World.

So if you believe you’re unlucky, you just won’t tune into an opportunity that might be right under your nose, because your beliefs won’t ‘tune into’ that opportunity. Your mind won’t allow you to and you may get self sabotaging thoughts to stop you.

Conversely, if you believe that you’re the type of person whom attracts opportunity, you wouldn’t think twice to take action on an opportunity that comes your way.

That’s how we shape our reality through our beliefs. The only way to change your beliefs is by CONSTANTLY telling yourself a different story until you break down the old belief and so the new belief becomes more automatic.

[Vibroverse]

35 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 But you are also philosophizing so you are not escaping this problem.

I still stand by my conviction..Believing in something CAN NOT make it a reality any more than giving an inanimate object a name can give it sentience. However, the things you believe DO influence the way you perceive the world. And the way you perceive the world has a huge influence over which parts of reality you’re attentive to vs which parts you ignore. Ie, if you believe that something is real (or possible) you are much more likely to observe evidence about it in reality.

Eg. If you believe that Santa is real/possible you will notice things in reality that support (or disprove) your belief; sleigh bells ringing on Christmas Eve, mysterious presents around the Christmas tree, those mysterious presents disappearing when you move out of your parents home

Well, my experience is that reality is consciousness. However, the question is can I even trust my experience? Can you even trust your memories for instance that tells you that there has always been such a thing as gravity, or can you just say that there is something like gravity for now, in this moment, and that it is the only thing you can be certain about? 

Well, then can you even be certain about your current experience, maybe you're in a dream right now, or something like that, yeah? Therefore what I'm saying is there is such a thing as experience, or to say it even better, there is such a thing as a mode of experientiality that you are experiencing. 

You probably won't just jump off of a building saying that "oh I'm not sure if gravity is real anyways", because on the practical level of being, at least, we are living based on our intuitions, and we, at least on a pragmatic level, take our memories, and knowledges of the world, like remembering that there has been such a thing as gravity all along, to be trustable. 

And therefore, in that sense, we are always trusting something to be true, because you, intuitively, feel like a certain mode of thinking and being, etc, will be the most beneficial for you from where you are. And by my experience, I "know" that reality is consciousness, and my intuition is the true source of knowledge, or at least the knowledge that is most "accurate" and relevant for me. 

And, yeah, it is true that at the ultimate level even consciousness is an illusion, maybe it is not even consciousness that is the source of being. Maybe what reality is and how reality works, in that sense, will never be known, for every explanation will be another story. But that would be an absolute chaos then where you are an absolute skeptic, so you'll, perhaps, go and pee on your carpet instead of the toilet, for you cannot even trust your senses. 

Or, when you get into your car, you will steer the wheel to the right when you are actually wanting to go to the left, because how can you even be sure whether causality exists or not, or whether your senses and mind are fooling you or not? So, look, you are here and now, found yourself in the world, with endless people with endless opinions about what reality is, all of whom claiming that their explanation is the best explanation. 

So, what will you do, who will you trust about what reality actually is? And I won't say trust your own intelligence, because you very well know that your intelligence also is fooling you. I mean, sometimes you think something makes sense, and a few days later you say "oh I was just bullshitting". So you cannot even trust your own mind, what will you do about that? 

These are, in my humble opinion, the important questions to answer, first and foremost. Because if you cannot be clear about these things, who cares if reality is consciousness or whatever crap? Whether it is consciousness, or not, or whatever shit, whatever story we might be telling, whatever "truth" we might be explaining, if you've not become one with yourself, or whatever you call it, then it is all just blah blah blah. 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Vibroverse

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

Well, my experience is that reality is consciousness. However, the question is can I even trust my experience? Can you even trust your memories for instance that tells you that there has always been such a thing as gravity, or can you just say that there is something like gravity for now, in this moment, and that it is the only thing you can be certain about? 

Well, then can you even be certain about your current experience, maybe you're in a dream right now, or something like that, yeah? Therefore what I'm saying is there is such a thing as experience, or to say it even better, there is such a thing as a mode of experientiality that you are experiencing. 

You probably won't just jump off of a building saying that "oh I'm not sure if gravity is real anyways", because on the practical level of being, at least, we are living based on our intuitions, and we, at least on a pragmatic level, take our memories, and knowledges of the world, like remembering that there has been such a thing as gravity all along, to be trustable. 

And therefore, in that sense, we are always trusting something to be true, because you, intuitively, feel like a certain mode of thinking and being, etc, will be the most beneficial for you from where you are. And by my experience, I "know" that reality is consciousness, and my intuition is the true source of knowledge, or at least the knowledge that is most "accurate" and relevant for me. 

And, yeah, it is true that at the ultimate level even consciousness is an illusion, maybe it is not even consciousness that is the source of being. Maybe what reality is and how reality works, in that sense, will never be known, for every explanation will be another story. But that would be an absolute chaos then where you are an absolute skeptic, so you'll, perhaps, go and pee on your carpet instead of the toilet, for you cannot even trust your senses. 

Or, when you get into your car, you will steer the wheel to the right when you are actually wanting to go to the left, because how can you even be sure whether causality exists or not, or whether your senses and mind are fooling you or not? So, look, you are here and now, found yourself in the world, with endless people with endless opinions about what reality is, all of whom claiming that their explanation is the best explanation. 

So, what will you do, who will you trust about what reality actually is? And I won't say trust your own intelligence, because you very well know that your intelligence also is fooling you. I mean, sometimes you think something makes sense, and a few days later you say "oh I was just bullshitting". So you cannot even trust your own mind, what will you do about that? 

These are, in my humble opinion, the important questions to answer, first and foremost. Because if you cannot be clear about these things, who cares if reality is consciousness or whatever crap? Whether it is consciousness, or not, or whatever shit, whatever story we might be telling, whatever "truth" we might be explaining, if you've not become one with yourself, or whatever you call it, then it is all just blah blah blah. 

 

Who told you that reality comes to you through the senses or through mind (whatever that means )? That's a false assumption.  Reality is 100% direct .

Of course reality is consciousness. But consciousness is not perception. There is a big difference. Perception implies subject-object relationship. While consciousness =being .

reality is not the result of sensory perception. ‘Our senses’ as well as ‘our minds’ appear in reality, not reality in them. That which is constantly on the move, changing all the time, dependent on other things cannot be real [e.g., there are no senses without the air you breath, which is ignored as something trivial, attributing to the senses that which in fact is just one link in the causal chain, but not the cause].

To know reality, you must start with the knower.fiind the nature of the knower by questioning that which you learned from others about what you are, on top of which you added your own ideas. Identify all the false ideas and remove them; here’s where logic and reason complete their job. When you know the knower, you will know reality. This kind of knowledge is unique, unlike the worldly knowledge of phenomena. You know reality directly, by being, not with the help of the mind as an intermediary. The mind has no access to reality; all it can do is to identify the false and discard it. Reality will then shine fort, self evident.

 

[Thought Art]

@Someone here But, also I say belief because there is no physical reality, causality, logic, time, space, etc other than what you believe as this universal mind. You were never born, you don’t exist, there is nothing here. But, you believe there is in your little dream. 
 

It’s as if Blank. So reality is consistent.

theres layerssss

Edited November 24, 2022 by Thought Art

[Vibroverse]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Who told you that reality comes to you through the senses or through mind (whatever that means )? That's a false assumption.  Reality is 100% direct .

Of course reality is consciousness. But consciousness is not perception. There is a big difference. Perception implies subject-object relationship. While consciousness =being .

reality is not the result of sensory perception. ‘Our senses’ as well as ‘our minds’ appear in reality, not reality in them. That which is constantly on the move, changing all the time, dependent on other things cannot be real [e.g., there are no senses without the air you breath, which is ignored as something trivial, attributing to the senses that which in fact is just one link in the causal chain, but not the cause].

To know reality, you must start with the knower.fiind the nature of the knower by questioning that which you learned from others about what you are, on top of which you added your own ideas. Identify all the false ideas and remove them; here’s where logic and reason complete their job. When you know the knower, you will know reality. This kind of knowledge is unique, unlike the worldly knowledge of phenomena. You know reality directly, by being, not with the help of the mind as an intermediary. The mind has no access to reality; all it can do is to identify the false and discard it. Reality will then shine fort, self evident.

 

Cool, then I think you've found your answer. 

 

[caspex]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

The universe hasn't collapsed  into nothing already because well..here it is . We observe it everyday. And it's functioning super well.

@Someone here What's right here is that nothingness. I am not trying to preach non-duality but you gotta apply that here. What you observe is nothingness and so are you. Worrying about the universe suddenly changing states into nothingness can only come from a lack of understanding that it's already nothing.

Quote

I don't know if I'm making sense or not. But since people who replied on this thread responded with coherent answers that tells me that I'm making sense .

Yes, you don't know if you're making sense or not, you're only believing it because you see others replying coherently to your thread. But how do you figure if they are being coherent or not? Through your own sense making no? How do you know that's coherent? Through others? That's circular reasoning.

Quote

Of course we are not in complete chaos right now because the entropy in the universe around us is not infinite. Scientists expect it to reach infinity at the moment of heat death. But it didn't happen yet .

By chaos I mean complete inconsistency. How would you ever know if reality isn't already completely insane but you just, being insane, think it's sane?

Quote

Yeah thats a nerdy point..the sun doesn't rise..its the the rotation of the earth around it's axis . So we could reframe the question "what guarantees that the earth will continue to rotate around its axis ?"

What I meant was how do you know if the past even happened? Worrying about whether the past happened to begin with is the primary concern, and only after answering that could you worry about, will the future be consistent?

[Thought Art]

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Swarnim said:

What's right here is that nothingness. I am not trying to preach non-duality but you gotta apply that here. What you observe is nothingness and so are you. Worrying about the universe suddenly changing states into nothingness can only come from a lack of understanding that it's already nothing.

We don’t know (and probably cannot ever know) however, if there was nothing  then we wouldn’t be here to comment on it.

1 hour ago, Swarnim said:

Yes, you don't know if you're making sense or not, you're only believing it because you see others replying coherently to your thread. But how do you figure if they are being coherent or not? Through your own sense making no? How do you know that's coherent? Through others? That's circular reasoning

Its not circular reasoning . I know that what i say is coherent because it makes sense to me .

The goal of reasoning is to make conclusions about reality. For that you need premises that are rooted in reality, which are demonstrably true. Circular reasoning lacks those roots and therefore, while creating an own cosmos of coherent logic, does not allow us to make any conclusions about reality. An example would be You can claim that the Bible says that God exists and that the Bible must be true because it came from God, but that does not mean that God exists or anything in the Bible is true. It just means that it could be that way, not that it actually is that way.

1 hour ago, Swarnim said:

By chaos I mean complete inconsistency. How would you ever know if reality isn't already completely insane but you just, being insane, think it's sane?

I have always believed that sanity is relative to the culture and the times. I feel my sanity is stronger than the insanity I perceive and experience around me every day. In the Roman times, drunkenness and debauchery were fairly normal and considered within the realm of the sane person who fit well into his/her culture and time. Such behavior now would seem to weigh in more heavily on the side of insanity unless one were a privileged celebrity or an un-mentionably rich individual who seeks to define his own place in the culture.

1 hour ago, Swarnim said:

What I meant was how do you know if the past even happened? Worrying about whether the past happened to begin with is the primary concern, and only after answering that could you worry about, will the future be consistent?

Good point. I agree.

The past expires into the present and does not exist in the present. the past time expires into the present. The only way of seeing or knowing about the past or past time is to examine what has been left remaining from the past and by seeking memories of the past.which only occur now .

[John Paul]

My interpretation of your post is that your subconscious mind will think absolutely anything to get you to not work hard. Just do it, work hard. What’s a reward? The hard work is he reward, eat the shit bro.

[Gesundheit2]

20 hours ago, Someone here said:

And this makes me feel scared sometimes. Think. There is no guarantee you will be rewarded for your hard work. No guarantee, even if everything happens right, that you will live a good life. Even if everything happens in your favor scientifically, well there's always a chance the universe says "screw science" and just give you immeasurable suffering randomly. In fact there is no reason why that can't happen, we just assume it won't.

Worst of all, we toil hard, see our friends and family and others work hard, suffer, and pin everything they have on this one basic assumption, which has no reason to be true. For example, a father working his ass off to pay medical bills for his disabled daughter could wake up to find his daughter dead for no reason. Everything he has in his life could crash all in one moment. There is no reason why it can't happen. And it isn't even a game of probability, because probability assumes that past events are linked to the future events, and can be used to make predictions of the future.
But in reality, every event possible must be, "logically", equally likely, since we have no real laws to tell them apart, only the assumption that what happened in the past will also happen the same way in the future. Only an assumption, nothing else

This is rather a freeing realization, similar to no free-will. It taught me to live in the moment and forget about the future and past.

Think about it. There's a positive side to inconsistency. If causality is illusory, then you don't have to worry about tomorrow or be sad about the past in the first place. There's no reason for you to be afraid of the consequences of your actions.

Just surrender the need to control life and this won't be a problem for you anymore. Of course, do your best to make the most rational decisions anytime you can, but just realize that reality is absolutely free and doesn't need to conform to your thoughts. In fact, your thoughts are not only yours in the first place. They're also reality's thoughts at the same time.

I hate to sound like a hippy, but:

 

[Someone here]

 

31 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

This is rather a freeing realization, similar to no free-will. It taught me to live in the moment and forget about the future and past.

Think about it. There's a positive side to inconsistency. If causality is illusory, then you don't have to worry about tomorrow or be sad about the past in the first place. There's no reason for you to be afraid of the consequences of your actions.

Just surrender the need to control life and this won't be a problem for you anymore. Of course, do your best to make the most rational decisions anytime you can, but just realize that reality is absolutely free and doesn't need to conform to your thoughts. In fact, your thoughts are not only yours in the first place. They're also reality's thoughts at the same time.

I hate to sound like a hippy, but:

 

Similar to the no free will realization..it can be "freeing " as you said or it can be daunting. Depending on how you interpret it and how you fit it into your worldview .

I would say for Me it makes me disillusioned with life. Because I know that the very next moment the entire universe could collapse into nothing or I could go to bed at night and never wake up again . I know it's not healthy to entertain such thoughts .but that's what is on my mind recently. 

However..of course THIS right here right now matters. A lot of the time, people tend to discount our time here on earth. Not just Nihilists, but also many Theists, or everyone, in general, does it at one point or another.

The best thing that I have realized is that, no matter the scale of the Universe, no matter the consequences of the afterlife, no matter the past, or the distant future. Right now matters!

Why?

Because we are living right now. There are other people living right now. We have a span of (hopefully) 50–100+years where we exist amongst other people.

We should make the present count because we have the present. We have a life worth living right now, so it deserves whatever we can give it.

I found this in myself when I was talking to a friend about his Nihilistic perspective. He asked me, “Why should we even try if, in the end, nothing will matter?”

Because right now matters. Who cares about what will happen in the distant future, when we are not around to see it if we can make a positive impact on what we have right now, where we can.

[Gesundheit2]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I would say for Me it makes me disillusioned with life.

It doesn't make you anything. It's just a thought that you think and give negative weight to, when you don't have to.

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Because

Causality is an illusion, remember.

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I know that the very next moment the entire universe could collapse into nothing or I could go to bed at night and never wake up again .

So what? Where's the problem? You came here out of nowhere, too. It's only fair.

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I know it's not healthy to entertain such thoughts .but that's what is on my mind recently. 

Actually, I think it's the healthiest thing to do. People who ignore these inquiries remain asleep to the greatest depths of life. You're opening up. You're growing.

[Thought Art]

Just live and enjoy the life. Who cares what it’s absolute nature is when there’s music, food, growth, love…