Were you raised by narcissists too?

[Ulax]

11 hours ago, no_name said:

You don’t feel bad about getting financial support from them? Or you’re just really young still? 

@no_name I do feel guilt and shame at times. I also feel apathy towards it. As well as an understanding and anger.

[Ulax]

8 hours ago, axiom said:

@meta_male The seeking of meaning is the suffering.

Labels like "narcissist" are a form of dehumanisation and condemnation. Pathological narcissism is very rare. Carelessly throwing this label around helps neither the apparent victim nor the apparent perpetrator (both of whom can suffer a lot)

@axiom Dehumanisation and condemnation are sometimes quite useful in society, moreso the latter, imo.

 

[meta_male]

11 hours ago, axiom said:

@meta_male The seeking of meaning is the suffering.

Labels like "narcissist" are a form of dehumanisation and condemnation. Pathological narcissism is very rare. Carelessly throwing this label around helps neither the apparent victim nor the apparent perpetrator (both of whom can suffer a lot)

Yeah on the absolute level we could agree on that, but victims of abuse unaware of the dynamics at play will just get more confused by hearing something like this; they need practical advice, which builds up momentum. And if the term narcissism helps you make sense of your experience even better.

Of course first learning about this subject and being able to relate might make you put the label on more people than necessary. This is okay and the last thing you should worry about when trying to escape situations where people keep crossing your boundaries is whether you labelling someone as one thing or another is dehumanizing. Because it is exactly what's holding those people back from stepping up.

[meta_male]

12 hours ago, puporing said:

and or attributing any "good results" I get to their doing/"good parenting" lol.

@puporing Haha that's so frustrating   Def can relate. In my experience not having my suffering and successes acknowledged made me slowly lose respect for them and be more on my own than seeking their company. I can love them from a distance and feel deeply for them, but all this goes flying out the window as soon as they're around. They're excellent at knowing exactly which buttons to push.

Do you feel guilty when thinking about they becoming older without you being around them much?

[no_name]

17 hours ago, puporing said:

So I became very "boring" to them to cope.

Why are you not going NC with them? What benefit do you get out of communicating with them in such way? It sounds like basically dealing with a gang of angry dogs, trying not to set them off at all times. Is it because of guilt that you still stay in touch with them?

 

[meta_male]

@no_name Yeah, my mum was constantly comparing me to my sister who had a much closer connection with her. She kept bible bashing and twisting verses to make me understand that if I don't open up more I will eventually get cancer ?

[Ulax]

@no_name Yep. Often when id try and set a boundary with my mum she'd see it as a personal attack and just go in on me with a verbal onslaught.

[puporing]

@meta_male That's tough, I hope you can recognize yourself as your greatest ally and cheerleader, and find others who can extend that to you.

4 hours ago, meta_male said:

Do you feel guilty when thinking about they becoming older without you being around them much?

Not much anymore, I used to get guilt-tripped for distancing myself a lot but I stood my ground. I think I've been giving them more than enough (that I can give and not overly sacrifice my state of consciousness). Consideration for the whole includes yourself too.

23 minutes ago, no_name said:

Why are you not going NC with them? What benefit do you get out of communicating with them in such way? It sounds like basically dealing with a gang of angry dogs, trying not to set them off at all times. Is it because of guilt that you still stay in touch with them?

There's some hope that my being in minimal contact could raise their level of consciousness over time and stop the cycle, and I can see a bit of change in the past few years. They're not as angry/sad. On my end, it pushes me to work with difficult people and practice love, boundary setting, seeing their true identity despite how they appear, and unifying my consciousness. If things get worse, I do not feel guilty to stop contact, but right now minimal contact seems to work okay. 

[no_name]

48 minutes ago, puporing said:

There's some hope that my being in minimal contact could raise their level of consciousness over time and stop the cycle, and I can see a bit of change in the past few years.

Do you feel this is a dangerous game to play though? Kind of like when you’re in an abusive relationship and you keep staying with the person hoping they would change or, even worse, that you can change them?

Especially in an emotionally charged relationship such as child/parent, can you truly detach yourself properly from them without having expectations? Kind of like how a child always craves a mother, no matter how old the child is, and how toxic the mother is, the child will always have hope that the mother they always wanted would eventually show up. Also there’s a lot of baggage in these relationship, unlike other relationships, a lot of anger.

I mean, why did you decided to keep your toxic parents in your life and not other toxic people? Why do parents get this special “pass” for being toxic? Wouldn’t guilt, sense of obligation, and social pressure be the only reasons?

Edited November 18, 2022 by no_name

[puporing]

@no_name I appreciate the concern. 

It depends on your current state and how toxic the situation is still, how much it's affecting your growth, etc. If you are for example feeling hurt/grieving, cannot otherwise escape abuse, and needing to be loved, mostly identified as the finite self, I generally don't recommend contact. For a period I did go extremely low contact and let them know I needed time away from them to heal as hard as that was to say at the time. My current state allows room for some difficult people to be around in the periphery and practice expanding, and I'm managing my boundaries and adjusting based on how things are.

I don't see them as my "parents" to receive love from anymore, but I was given these people in my life so they're part of "training". Prior to that, I guess it came down to empathy coz I understand the bigger picture of ancestral trauma/patterning passing down.

Edited November 18, 2022 by puporing

[no_name]

On 2022-11-18 at 3:24 PM, puporing said:

My current state allows room for some difficult people to be around in the periphery and practice expanding, and I'm managing my boundaries and adjusting based on how things are.

 

How much contact do you have with them? Like how often do you talk/see each other? For how long do you talk for/spend time with them? Is there a cap you put on communication? 

Also, did you ever go through a state of hate and anger? Because for me it’s very hard to feel empathy for them, I don’t want to feel empathy for them, they are the reason of all the difficulties in my life.

Edited November 20, 2022 by no_name

[puporing]

21 hours ago, no_name said:

How much contact do you have with them? Like how often do you talk/see each other? For how long do you talk for/spend time with them? Is there a cap you put on communication? 

We use a chat app to share some photos and brief messages (though they have a tendency to spam), few times a week depending. Calls like 1-2 times a month. Visit about once a year depending, (we don't live in the same city so that helps). It just depends on how I feel.. if I get the sense they're getting too dependent or stalkery/controlling I will give more space in between. I do not share very much personal details that tend to become material for gossip/control/sabatoge, just the mundane stuff usually. 

21 hours ago, no_name said:

Also, did you ever go through a state of hate and anger? Because for me it’s very hard to feel empathy for them, I don’t want to feel empathy for them, they are the reason of all the difficulties in my life.

Anger for sure I went through. It's okay that's what you're going through right now. It sounds like you need some distance to process all this. Don't try to force your feelings. I think I was angry/grieving for about 2 years before where I am now so give yourself the space to heal. And you won't be able to give them much anyway before your cup is filled. Right now just find ways to fill your cup would be my advice, find a therapist if you can afford, if not there are also people online who can validate you/help you heal - like Daniel Mackler and Matt Kahn for example. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by puporing