Why do Men appear at Extremes?

[Julian gabriel]

More men at the top of dominance hierarchies 

More men at the bottom of dominance hierarchies. 

More women in the middle area. 

Why? And how could this relate to masculinity vs femininity? 

Does masculinity play games by putting itself in situations which have a more dangerous risk vs reward ratio?

Does femininity play things safe more? The feminine certainty seems more obedient so I guess doing what ur told would put u in the middle most often.

[Jannes]

Evolutionary it would make sense that men are more often extreme then women. In most cases being extreme probably isn’t good for your survival but if that extreme is good for your survival that extreme dude could impregnate hundreds of women. The risk reward ratio for women probably isn’t worthed. Chances are higher that an extreme women won’t benefit survival and even if it does then this women can only have so many babies. 

I saw a film about chimpanzees recently. There was one male chimpanzee who didn’t have much going for him in terms of strength, appearance, status, .. but he did have the white stuff in the eyes that normally only humans have. He got a lot of attention because other chimps could track his eye movement and therefore could use him as an information source of potential danger. He reproduced by far the most, probably because the females knew that this trait would be very useful.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Jannes

[Tyler Robinson]

Test-o-sterone. 

 

[Julian gabriel]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Test-o-sterone. 

 

@Tyler Robinson ok. What is testosterone? 

[Tyler Robinson]

1 minute ago, Julian gabriel said:

@Tyler Robinson ok. What is testosterone? 

It's something that makes you go extreme. Wild. 

[LordFall]

Because females don't need to exhibit any particular trait to reproduce, they just need to survive. Males have random traits so those traits end up being really good or really bad or somewhere in the middle.

Those that end up luckily having traits that benefit the tribe get a lot more females and resources than usual, those that get middle traits have a regular amount of females and resources, and those that end up having bad traits are fucked. 

[Julian gabriel]

22 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

It's something that makes you go extreme. Wild. 

@Tyler Robinson how does it do that

[eos_nyxia]

On 11/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, LordFall said:

Because females don't need to exhibit any particular trait to reproduce, they just need to survive. Males have random traits so those traits end up being really good or really bad or somewhere in the middle.

Those that end up luckily having traits that benefit the tribe get a lot more females and resources than usual, those that get middle traits have a regular amount of females and resources, and those that end up having bad traits are fucked. 

Issac Newton's virginity sure helped with his reproduction value, haha.

....seriously though, how does being a turbo-nerd fit into all of this evo-psych stuff? The handful of explanations I've heard are just... so clumsy.

Edited November 18, 2022 by eos_nyxia

[Sid X]

Going far from the norms of society is by definition extreme, in other words, it's called exploration. men are forced evolutionarily to be more adventurous than women, as they have to explore unknown territories to find food and resources.

[thisintegrated]

Women need simply stay alive, and they'll have value as they can make babies.

If 99 men die while finding food / hunting, but 1 returns alive, there is no difference to how many babies can be born.

 

Evolution has made men risk takers as the risks are insignificant to a community as a whole, but the rewards are large.

If a community had women as risk takers, far fewer babies would be born.

 

Risk taker man = top of every hierarchy

Risk averse man = no inherent value, unlike women, so value below even a woman's (depending on culture)

Edited November 19, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Women need simply stay alive, and they'll have value as they can make babies.

If 99 men die while finding food / hunting, but 1 returns alive, there is no difference to how many babies can be born.

 

Evolution has made men risk takers as the risks are insignificant to a community as a whole, but the rewards are large.

If a community had women as risk takers, far fewer babies would be born.

So you think that testosterone has no role to play?

[thisintegrated]

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

So you think that testosterone has no role to play?

Being a man involves having more testosterone.  So yes, it's one of the main hormones that make a man into what we associate with men.

[Carl-Richard]

45 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Women need simply stay alive, and they'll have value as they can make babies.

If 99 men die while finding food / hunting, but 1 returns alive, there is no difference to how many babies can be born.

 

Evolution has made men risk takers as the risks are insignificant to a community as a whole, but the rewards are large.

If a community had women as risk takers, far fewer babies would be born.

 

Risk taker man = top of every hierarchy

Risk averse man = no inherent value, unlike women, so value below even a woman's (depending on culture)

Haha me and my roommate were talking about this one time. We concluded that society progresses through risk taking and out-there ideas.

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Haha me and my roommate were talking about this one time. We concluded that society progresses through risk taking and out-there ideas.

Though that alone wouldn't necessitate evolutionary adaptations in men.

Edited November 19, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Tyler Robinson]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Haha me and my roommate were talking about this one time. We concluded that society progresses through risk taking and out-there ideas.

Exactly what I expected a Cancer to think. They just wanna jump - even if it's a canyon. 

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Though that alone wouldn't necessitate evolutionary adaptations in men.

It's not the whole story, no. It was really funny though how we arrived at it.

So we both study psychology (his name is Emil, pretty Ne guy), and one time, we had some work due the next day which involved interviewing three people about a subject. I asked one of our other roommates and ended up talking at great length, stressing that we had to follow ethical guidelines of no pressure, while Emil just casually asked our other roommate who walked in the door and she agreed without question.

So I suggested the next day while walking to class that his strategy, which involved more risk taking, was also extremely efficient (he didn't spend more than a second on negotiations while I spent minutes), and that this is how society progresses, because like you said, the risk takers who succeed reap massive rewards which they can share with the community, while the failures just get eliminated and forgotten.

Then later that day, we were talking about random shit, like "what is that weird structure on top of that building over there?", and we laid out our theories and everything, and then we somehow landed on how talking about useless shit is another example of how society progresses, because just like risk taking, people who make the good connections reap massive rewards, while those who don't just waste their time. And hence we arrived at our conclusion. That was one fun day  

Edited November 19, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[OBEler]

@Tyler Robinson testosteron is just an expression in male for something bigger going on. 

High testosteron fits to the survival strategy of protection and sacrifice for family/community and taking risks which also can benefit Society. But  there is more in a male going on than just hormons 

[vindicated erudite]

Men are put under greater selection pressures than women and thus more variation is seen with men.  

[Jannes]

On 18.11.2022 at 7:39 PM, Lila9 said:

@Jannes Do you mind to share the name of the film?

It’s a clip from YouTube from what I am guessing was a documentation. Unfortunately I can’t find it anymore.