A Term I Notice Gets Thrown Around Alot GASLIGHTING

[Joel3102]

Gaslighting used to mean a form of psychological abuse were you make some one question their sanity.

 

Now it just means you disagree with me. 

[CultivateLove]

2 hours ago, universe said:

Gaslighting is when you drive in a car with your friend and then say you think the next turn is left but he says its right. Then later he tells you that you said right and he said left. (Example)

This. It's such a simple term that it's kind of sad, frustrating and a little bit funny to see how many people just can't understand it and either claim it doesn't exist or accuse someone of doing it because of a mere disagreement. (Looking at some people on this forum...)

Edited November 16, 2022 by CultivateLove

[vladorion]

Could it be said that accusing someone of gaslighting when they were simply criticizing your views or expressing a different opinion is a form of gaslighting?

Referring to things like this:

 

[Gidiot]

Razard86 you a genius. Gidiot95 approves. But please don’t gaslight me or go ape shit on my ass! I like your little mindfucky posts

[Roy]

Gaslighting doesn't exist - it's just a catchy buzzword that caught on in our culture, typically used by those with a victim mindset who were left confused or frustrated from an interaction and look to deflect from questioning or taking emotional responsibility for the situation by levying assumptions of maliciousness onto the other party member.

Of course manipulation exists and it happens, whether it's intentional and/or subtle or not. However this doesn't justify the recipient to completely dodge how they are present in the equation and not just a helpless mannequin. Even if you are on the defense and suffering from the situation, and have some reason to believe you are being manipulated. The idea of gaslighting just gives immature people a cover from recognizing their own faults. Almost every time I've seen it used it's people refusing to learn or improve the situation for themselves, the opposite of the personal development mindset.

Reminds me of my ex and I. We had a really healthy relationship that was open and honest, however I remember on one occasion she accused me of gaslighting her about something. I was taken aback by it and wasn't sure how to react. I asked her if we could lay everything out on the table, I wanted to know her account and feelings about things, and what we could do to remedy it. No matter what approach I took to understand or pry her perspective, it didn't matter. She already preemptively decided how she felt and ANY move on my part was just "further gaslighting", including accepting how she felt .

All there was left to do was laugh. I was losing at a game I wasn't even playing lol. Makes me think of this meme;

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Roy

[CultivateLove]

@Razard86 @Roy Let's say two people have a date, and they agree to meet at 8. The girl shows up at 8, but the guy is already there and asks why she's 30 minutes late. She's confused and replies she thought they agreed it's at 8. He says they certainly agreed it was 7:30, but he says he forgives her this time.

If the guy genuinely believed it was 7:30, and he was generally very sure of himself, and didn't mean to show up on the wrong time, it wouldn't be gaslighting.

But if the guy KNEW they agreed to meet at 8, and he KNOWS she doesn't have the best memory or self-esteem, and that he is intentionally doing this to make herself doubt herself even more so he can take even greater advantage of her in the future. IT'S CALLED GASLIGHTING. It's a DISTINCT type of mental & emotional abuse, that DOES HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. (Admittedly not as much as it's thrown around as an accusation).

What else would you call it, other than something overly simplistic and general like lying or abuse? Sure, you could do that, if making simple distinctions takes too much brainpower for you.

Just because a bunch of people don't know what gaslighting actually is and frequently misuse the term, it doesn't mean that what Gaslighting was originally meant to be a label for doesn't exist.

Edited November 16, 2022 by CultivateLove

[Breakingthewall]

44 minutes ago, CultivateLove said:

@Razard86 @Roy Let's say two people have a date, and they agree to meet at 8. The girl shows up at 8, but the guy is already there and asks why she's 30 minutes late. She's confused and replies she thought they agreed it's at 8. He says they certainly agreed it was 7:30, but he says he forgives her this time.

If the guy genuinely believed it was 7:30, and he was generally very sure of himself, and didn't mean to show up on the wrong time, it wouldn't be gaslighting.

But if the guy KNEW they agreed to meet at 8, and he KNOWS she doesn't have the best memory or self-esteem, and that he is intentionally doing this to make herself doubt herself even more so he can take even greater advantage of her in the future. IT'S CALLED GASLIGHTING. It's a DISTINCT type of mental & emotional abuse, that DOES HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. (Admittedly not as much as it's thrown around as an accusation).

What else would you call it, other than something overly simplistic and general like lying or abuse? Sure, you could do that, if making simple distinctions takes too much brainpower for you.

Just because a bunch of people don't know what gaslighting actually is and frequently misuse the term, it doesn't mean that what Gaslighting was originally meant to be a label for doesn't exist.

Exactly. Razard doesn't understand what's gaslighting, He is mixing ideas, confusing himself, but giving everything a brilliant rhetoric that makes many think: wow! smart!. and the worst thing is that if you point out some evident and obvious error to contribute something to him, he gets angry! like a child! It's so funny. or he tells you: YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WAS WRONG BECAUSE I AM YOU. it's wonderful

[something_else]

6 hours ago, Roy said:

Gaslighting doesn't exist - it's just a catchy buzzword that caught on in our culture, typically used by those with a victim mindset who were left confused or frustrated from an interaction and look to deflect from questioning or taking emotional responsibility for the situation by levying assumptions of maliciousness onto the other party member.

Of course manipulation exists and it happens, whether it's intentional and/or subtle or not. However this doesn't justify the recipient to completely dodge how they are present in the equation and not just a helpless mannequin. Even if you are on the defense and suffering from the situation, and have some reason to believe you are being manipulated. The idea of gaslighting just gives immature people a cover from recognizing their own faults. Almost every time I've seen it used it's people refusing to learn or improve the situation for themselves, the opposite of the personal development mindset.

Reminds me of my ex and I. We had a really healthy relationship that was open and honest, however I remember on one occasion she accused me of gaslighting her about something. I was taken aback by it and wasn't sure how to react. I asked her if we could lay everything out on the table, I wanted to know her account and feelings about things, and what we could do to remedy it. No matter what approach I took to understand or pry her perspective, it didn't matter. She already preemptively decided how she felt and ANY move on my part was just "further gaslighting", including accepting how she felt .

All there was left to do was laugh. I was losing at a game I wasn't even playing lol. Makes me think of this meme;

 

I agree that the way we use it in the modern world is usually quite victim-y and often wrong. But psychologically the term means something real. If you are intentionally trying to overwrite someone else's experience of reality with your own ideas and manipulations then that is gaslighting.

The problem is that someone can easily call a simple disagreement gaslighting because you are often trying to impose your view on someone else. And they can just decide that you're gaslighting them when they start to realise they are wrong, but don't want to admit it.

Edited November 16, 2022 by something_else

[Thought Art]

“Gaslighting doesn’t exist you made it up because your fucking crazy” 

Meta gaslighting 

[StarStruck]

Gaslighting has become a toxic word. The meaning has been emptied out. If somebody uses it is a huge red flag. 

[CultivateLove]

@StarStruck  No, using it incorrectly is toxic. It's a perfectly good word when used in the right context.

However victim mentality has risen a lot recently and people with that mentality love to use that word. It's the way it is used by these people that is causing this confusion and frustration around the word.

However people have been misusing psychological terms since they were invented. Hell, people have been misusing words for as long as we have had language. That doesn't mean we should view psychological terms or language as toxic.

Edited November 16, 2022 by CultivateLove

[NoSelfSelf]

Next one should be : Stonewalling lol

[Breakingthewall]

Gaslighting is when you intentionally make another person doubt the veracity of their perceptions, knowing that their perceptions are real, but you intentionally undermine their confidence to get some kind of real or imagined benefit. it is simple

Edited November 16, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

This is all cool until you end up being with a narcissist that makes your whole mind turned into hell...

Its all cool now when you know there are narcissist there and that its all your problem for letting their games affect you  but until then let God sneak you a narcissist and you will regret posting this gaslighting is serious abuse for those who are not having solid sense of self...

You dont know what narcissist can do...

If someone gaslighted you every day for a month you will start going insane basically if you didnt knew that its gaslighting...

^ Speak for yourself my dad and my ex were narcissist. According to the definition of the word....the great thing is...this is how I learned what I am sharing with you. Have you not learned that narcissists are parasites? A parasite infects its host, so what happens when one is traumatized by a narcissist? THEY BECOME ONE. They start projecting their PAIN and SEE narcissism EVERYWHERE. They go around accusing EVERYONE of gaslighting them. 

A tell tell sign of a kind person being traumatized by a narcissist is they go around throwing the word gaslight around as if it was some greeting. The MOMENT ANYTHING triggers them they use the word gaslight. If you do not realize or notice what I am telling you....you will suffer what many call narcissistic abuse...from a "victim" of a narcissist. 

Narcissists create more narcissists by turning those who engage with them into fatalists full of resentment from past hurts and they see the whole world as narcissistic. Its why forgiveness is so important.

But ultimately...all of this is a game. I can even deconstruct what I said above and make it very simple.

1. Has anyone ever existed outside of your sensory perception? NO. So if you cannot see me, hear me, touch me, I don't exist. So my existence or lack thereof is entangled with your senses....which means I AM YOUR SENSORY PERCEPTION. So if I am your sensory perception...then who is traumatizing who? 

2. Are you going to accuse your sensory perception as AN OTHER? All OTHERS, the entire WORLD, is just your sensory perception. So WHO is traumatizing you? WHO IS HURTING YOU? You are dreaming things through sensory perception, pretending that you are not, getting lost in your senses and crafting storylines of pain, and drama, and a whole lot of other things. But your entire life is JUST SENSORY PERCEPTION.

3. So...based on the premise that everything is just sensory perception....when you are in DEEP SLEEP is their sensory perception? NO! So what is life? It is just a projection of sensory perception UPON DEEP SLEEP. So you have the less stable sensory perception called a dream, and then the waking dream you call life. But they are BOTH just sensory perception being projected onto DEEP SLEEP. 

So....if your entire life is just your PROJECTION....then you are ALL ALONE DREAMING....SO WHO IS A VICTIM? You see I could have been kind and allowed you to keep crafting narratives, but sometimes the greatest kindness is the bitter truth. YOU ARE ALL ALONE, DREAMING UP THE ILLUSION OF OTHERS WHO ARE YOU AND THEN PLAYING VICTIM. You have created a nightmare and I, WHO ARE YOU am telling you how to wake up. This means....you are RESISTING YOURSELF who is giving you pointers on how to wake up. The choice...IS YOURS. 

[something_else]

@Razard86 It's possible to discuss things from a relative material perspective without the need to constantly move to an absolute perspective like you always seem to want to do.

We get that material reality doesn't really exist and everything is perception, but that point is really just not relevant when discussing more material concepts like basic psychology.

You might be right, but it isn't really relevant to the discussion. Nahm got kicked out of here for doing essentially the same thing on every single thread.

 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

So....if your entire life is just your PROJECTION....then you are ALL ALONE DREAMING....SO WHO IS A VICTIM? You see I could have been kind and allowed you to keep crafting narratives, but sometimes the greatest kindness is the bitter truth. YOU ARE ALL ALONE, DREAMING UP THE ILLUSION OF OTHERS WHO ARE YOU AND THEN PLAYING VICTIM. You have created a nightmare and I, WHO ARE YOU am telling you how to wake up. This means....you are RESISTING YOURSELF who is giving you pointers on how to wake up. The choice...IS YOURS

Pure demagogy. You mix the relative with the absolute all the time. you are very confused. in fact, your speech is pure gaslight. If once a week I wait for you at the door of your house and I break a bone with an iron bar, then I steal all your money, and in the end I crucify you with 4 nails on a tree, while you are hanging there I will tell you: hey friend, I hope you are not resentful with me, I AM YOU, you are creating all this.

You have to understand that there is no mistreatment or abuse at an absolute level, but that cannot be a reason to apply it at a relative level. on a relative level you must defend yourself from abuse, lions, infectious diseases, etc, even if ultimately they are you.

all your responses to people on this forum are narcissistic toxic gaslighting.

[CultivateLove]

@Razard86  I am very interested in what you'd have to say to my explanation of what gaslighting is.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by CultivateLove

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, Kshantivadin said:

So. It's a good post. Thank you a lot for writing it.

There is definitely a victim part to feeling gaslighted. Because - in order for "someone" to "gaslight" "you" you have to give up power and responsibility. Also, the context from which the term originates will make this truth click.

On the other hand, once the victimhood is abolished and overcome, I find it an useful term to describe certain behaviours. @Razard86 Imagine someone telling you that you're unhinged, crazy or psychotic because of, for example, this post - and trying to fuck with your head. Imagine if this were someone you cared about, maybe your only confidant in the whole world. Then you believe them and sign yourself up to a nuthouse. In that case, you have been gaslit.

I have to give my authority away to be gaslighted...also....the "person" who do it...WAS ME!!! LOL!!! If a person took a psychedelic right now...and was conned by a DMT elf, they would just laugh it off....but when it happens in "reality." They play the victim.

Look if people want a survival based, relativistic response: Here is one....don't just give your authority away to anyone!! Obviously we do live in an interconnected world so sometimes you have to give it away to things like Doctors, Mechanics, Pilots, etc. But never BLAME them because YOU gave your authority away. I am not saying don't hold them accountable for their actions....but what action preceded their action? YOU giving them your authority. 

We hold CEOs responsible for business decisions that cause your investments to fall, why? Because that CEO represents the authority of the business. Treat your life like a business, you make decisions...the BUCK STOPS WITH YOU. This entire thread is called SPIRITUALITY and this forum is created on a site called Actualized. Org by Leo Gura whose signature is YOU ARE GOD YOU ARE LOVE. YOU ARE INFINITY. YOU ARE LEO.

If this doesn't even wake up ....I don't know what else. Here is a mindfuck for you...when Leo tells someone he is going to ban them, he is TOTALLY AWARE he is talking to himself. In modern culture...we like to claim someone is insane for say talking to a wall and thinking it is a person. Right now...you are GOD...talking to yourself and SEEING OTHERS!!! So....God....is insane....you see? You can twist and turn this however you want.

Why do you think Leo was able to request to see what Insanity was? Because God is insane. Your POV are too scared to be destabilized and because of that limitation...you will suffer that limited perspective. This is also proof you don't want to expand your POV...you just want things to go your way. The funny thing is if that happened....it would BORE YOU. Like playing a game that is too easy, or watching a movie you have seen before. LOL. Oh the irony...you really don't understand your subconscious mind (reality).

[Breakingthewall]

@Razard86and I don't point it out to you with hate or revenge, or gaslighting intent. I point it out so you can see it. I bet in your real life you are gaslighting people with that absolute demagogery. It will bring you a lot of trouble. You are on the wrong path. At first you had good points, but things went wrong. Use me as a catalyst. you are getting insane, and this is not gaslighting, as my intention is genuinely to make you see your mistake. It's what a friend would do

Edited November 16, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[something_else]

28 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

This entire thread is called SPIRITUALITY and this forum is created on a site called Actualized. Org by Leo Gura whose signature is YOU ARE GOD YOU ARE LOVE. YOU ARE INFINITY. YOU ARE LEO.

Yes, but it's a tad annoying when you try to have a discussion and someone keeps moving to the absolute POV because you can literally always take the absolute POV and be correct, but it's usually not valuable to the discussion. Notice that Leo generally doesn't take an absolute POV in threads in the dating section or the politics section because it isn't called for and it's annoying when people do that. I know we are technically in the spirituality section but the topic isn't really spiritual so it still isn't called for.

People have to learn to see the absolute POV of their own accord, continually switching to that POV in the middle of relatively non-spiritual discussions isn't going to help them. If anything you will drive people away because it comes across as very arrogant and uncalibrated. You're also far more likely to instil it as just a belief in someone when you berate them with absolute POV rather than helping them to obtain that experience themselves.

Edited November 16, 2022 by something_else