Liberation

[Someone here]

 

There are a million different perspectives on this, and therefore a million different correct answers reflected in those perspectives.

Of course, I'm going to throw my 2¢ in here and share my own perspective.

"Liberation " is when you realize that there is no other place for you to be than here, and no other time to be here than now.

And since you are always right here and it's always right now, there's nothing more that you need to do. Everything else is purely optional.

Feel free to participate in life however you are able. You don't have to choose between just these two choices here, but if you want to play the roll of a saint, then play a saint. If you want to play the role of a sinner, then play a sinner. Both of those things go together and are completely dependent upon one another. A saint wouldn't know they were a saint without a sinner to compare themselves to. And vice versa.

[Guest Edvardas]

Thats a beginner-level psychological freedom you are talking about.

True psychological freedom, the elimination of guilt and fear, come about as a consequence of God-realization. Knowing that you are loved is also an element. 

Yet there are steps even above that. 

One step is the regular enlightenment, where you break away from samskara and live in a blissed out state with absolutely no pain. You can get stabbed in the eye and just chill.

The final step, or complete freedom is being unlimited. Or, if you prefer, it's God coming back home. 

In short, Freedom is not a yes or no, it has levels.

[Someone here]

@Edvardas To be free from yourself. Just try being with your self. Its the most horrific experience. You won't be able to be with yourself for 10 minutes also. Liberation means to finally find the contentment, the satisfaction, the complete relaxation, total acceptance, total surrender to life and be in total freedom on to be loving. U shall be so full of love that you have no option left but to share. Right now what I mean is your house is on fire. Some water is needed it will be free then you can help others too saying please just drink this water try it.!!! Outside lies only momentary pleasures. To be dependent on them is a bad idea. Find something inside which is far superior and grater and ever lasting

[Guest Edvardas]

@Someone here stop joking around, it's not horiffic at all, lol. Ego is horiffic, not the Self. I am without myself constantly and it's perfect.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Edvardas said:

I am without myself constantly and it's perfect.

The advantages of liberation is sat-chit ananda - eternity, knowledge and bliss.

Imo, liberation means to conquer death.

Have you overcome your fear of death yet ? If not then you are not liberated .

[Guest Edvardas]

@Someone here  why would you have to overcome something non-existent? I left this body (died) and there was no death, just more life. 

Conquering fear of death is not liberation. 

Also, Sat-chit-ananda is not an advantage of liberation, it's what you are. Moreover, sat does not mean eternity, it means truth. 

You have no idea what you are talking about. 

[Someone here]

@Edvardas 

2 minutes ago, Edvardas said:

why would you have to overcome something non-existent? I left this body (died) and there was no death, just more life. 

 Yes I know.  Its good to conquer  fear of death by realizing it's an illusion. That's exactly what I meant by overcome.

It is kind of like the conservation of energy…energy can only change forms, but energy can never be created or destroyed (no beginning or endings for energy).

Every single atom that makes you up, is an atom that was made in a star. Every bit of you is the universe itself, that has come alive for a few moments in time, and has become aware of itself. You are the universe itself, becoming conscious of itself for a bit, and then you die. But every single conscious being in the world, is also the same universe.

4 minutes ago, Edvardas said:

Also, Sat-chit-ananda is not an advantage of liberation, it's what you are. Moreover, sat does not mean eternity, it means truth. 

Sat - Existence.
Chit - That something which exists, a conscious being.
Aananda - Quality of existence.

Consciousness which exists in peace.
The true nature of every being

8 minutes ago, Edvardas said:

You have no idea what you are talking about. 

No you 

[Guest Edvardas]

@Someone here energy can be created and destroyed. Actually, there is no energy, only Mind.  

Stop parroting others. 

 

[Javfly33]

Absolute Love, I Iike it ?

[Breakingthewall]

Liberation is when the self dissolves, and it's fucking hard for the self to dissolve itself. the self is very tricky. Liberation is an art, you have to be some kind of genius. there are thousands of traps that strengthen the self. you have to be attentive all the time if you want to have any choice to dissolve yourself 

[Godishere]

From what I gather, liberation is not an attainment but what you already are. If consciousness is non dual then liberation must already be the case. Think about it, liberation implies that something is not already liberated.

It sounds like you're using concepts to think of a time that a 'you' will become liberated. Maybe you ARE liberation. Even the thought "here and now" are just concepts. But if you drop the entire thought of a 'you' who is liberated, all that is left if awareness. Because I've had the realizations before such as "I am exactly where I need to be" etc. But they are ultimately thoughts that come and go. Whereas the only thing that doesn't come and go is the awareness of all of these realizations, concepts. 

I do not believe that a you is ever liberated. Liberation only exists always now and is something that is never lost. You might be thinking the same 

 

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Liberation is when the self dissolves, and it's fucking hard for the self to dissolve itself. the self is very tricky. Liberation is an art, you have to be some kind of genius. there are thousands of traps that strengthen the self. you have to be attentive all the time if you want to have any choice to dissolve yourself 

That's like putting more gas on the fire.

 You ain't gonna become liberated by believing you are a separate powerless self in a maze or puzzle of problems to solve .

You don't "have " to do anything. That's true liberation. 

3 minutes ago, Godishere said:

From what I gather, liberation is not an attainment but what you already are. If consciousness is non dual then liberation must already be the case. Think about it, liberation implies that something is not already liberated.

It sounds like you're using concepts to think of a time that a 'you' will become liberated. Maybe you ARE liberation. Even the thought "here and now" are just concepts. But if you drop the entire thought of a 'you' who is liberated, all that is left if awareness. Because I've had the realizations before such as "I am exactly where I need to be" etc. But they are ultimately thoughts that come and go. Whereas the only thing that doesn't come and go is the awareness of all of these realizations, concepts. 

I do not believe that a you is ever liberated. Liberation only exists always now and is something that is never lost. You might be thinking the same 

 

 I agree partially .

If you know the path to obtain that liberation. Knowing it isn’t enough. You require constant, consistent conscious choices in all that you do, every little thing, such that you train yourself in devotion, discipline and dedication to your process. And being in this fucked up physical form, the task is not that easy. If you’re otherwise at a state of emotional equilibrium, that is not enough - liberation is all the more peaceful. And arguably, more difficult to obtain than if you had the fire of suffering to urge you on to liberation instead. Count yourself lucky if you are of the former state (emotionally at ease), not the latter (in suffering), because then it is a quicker, more uncluttered choice to make to dedicate yourself to transcendence and liberation.

[Godishere]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I agree partially .

If you know the path to obtain that liberation. Knowing it isn’t enough. You require constant, consistent conscious choices in all that you do, every little thing, such that you train yourself in devotion, discipline and dedication to your process. And being in this fucked up physical form, the task is not that easy. If you’re otherwise at a state of emotional equilibrium, that is not enough - liberation is all the more peaceful. And arguably, more difficult to obtain than if you had the fire of suffering to urge you on to liberation instead. Count yourself lucky if you are of the former state (emotionally at ease), not the latter (in suffering), because then it is a quicker, more uncluttered choice to make to dedicate yourself to transcendence and liberation.

But what I'm saying is the 'knower' is the hamster on the wheel. Every 'conscious step' towards truth is a step away from truth. As I said, you still think liberation it's something to attain, it's not. It's a recognition that you already are liberated. I fully get it though, the ego just can't handle the truth. It will do anything to avoid the truth. It's an illusion. You are ALREADY GOD.

[Godishere]

Look up Fred Davis, Non dual teacher. He's really good at getting this point across. 

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You ain't gonna become liberated by believing you are a separate powerless self in a maze or puzzle of problems to solve

Not believing, understanding what are you. But it's very difficult to understand yourself. 

a system cannot be known from inside the system. you have to go outside, but there is no outside. it's more complicated than you think 

true liberation is the dissolution of the self. since the self is the prison. It is the energy that wants, that search, that need, that fears. but that energy appears for a reason. in theory it is impossible to be without it and stay alive, since its function is survival. you have to be extremely subtle to find the perfect balance that allows you to survive and at the same time be free. I would say that it is something that borders on magic. I'm not there and I've never met anyone who is.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Guest Edvardas]

@Godishere why would you listen about liberation from a teacher who does not know who he is and what life is? Fred Davis is a loong way from enlightenment and liberation. His non-duality is not pure. 

Be careful what teachers you recommend. Bad sources polute the mind instead of enlightening it.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Edvardas said:

@Godishere why would you listen about liberation from a teacher who does not know who he is and what life is? Fred Davis is a loong way from enlightenment and liberation. His non-duality is not pure. 

Be careful what teachers you recommend. Bad sources polute the mind instead of enlightening it.

Who is a good teacher in your opinion? 

[Mohammad]

Sometimes it's very funny to me. The depth the stuff that you guys talk about, and then your attitude toward each other: "I am right, you are wrong!"

Realize how deep these ideas are.

Honestly, I cannot believe these conversations are genuine.

Everyone is living a different life. Everyone has to reach the Truth with his/her own being.

[Guest Edvardas]

@Breakingthewall you are in his forum right now.  

Ralston, Ramana, ACIM, Conws with God, the Dissapearance Trillogy, and maybe a few more. God-realized teachers are rare. 

Most teachers are lost. They dont know the most important thing - that it's all a solipsistic hallucination in the infinite mind of God. 

@Mohammad discussions like these open up the mind of the student to the possibility that he is deeply confused. Then, if he allows for a correction, there is also the possibility of leading him towards more clarity. Many here uphold defensive positions when corrected, which is unfortunate, as it stops their progress.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Edvardas
New reply

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Edvardas said:

They dont know the most important thing - that it's all a solipsistic hallucination in the infinite mind of God.

Maybe, but knowing this will not set you free. I have never read Ralston, since I have asked you and you have answered me, I will start something about him