Searching for the ultimate yogic practice

[Dorje Chang]

One of the most important things I learned from reflecting on Leo's videos is that I was focusing too much on meditation and ignoring yogic practices.  Instead, it's worth considering both mind and body-based paths to awakening.

I'm writing this topic to share what I've learned from researching different practices and implementing them in my daily routine.

I looked into: 

• Kriya Yoga and Kundalini Yoga,  based on the books in Leo's list.
• Tibetan yogic practices.
• Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya, taught by Sadhguru.

To my surprise, these three directions all suggested a similar practice: 

• The Kundalini book from Leo's list says that Kriya Supreme Fire is the most effective practice for awakening Kundalini. Kriya Supreme Fire also appears in his Kriya yoga books. 
• In Tibetan traditions, Tummo/Inner Fire meditation is usually regarded as the quintessential and most powerful yogic practice for achieving realization. Tummo is basically Kriya Supreme Fire with added visualization. 
•  Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya culminates in a practice that is essentially one round of Kriya Supreme Fire. 

What these practices have in common is that you hold your breath while applying bandhas (locks) and focusing on something.  Whether you do Kriya Supreme Fire or Tummo according to taste, this is unbelievably powerful. It works.  

In the end, my daily practice became: 

3x Mahamudra (KSR/SG books) >  Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya (Sadhguru) > Tummo > Rest in the natural state

Note: Gamana would say that Supreme Fire/Tummo is too strong for beginners and could lead to side effects if not incorporated gradually.  Sadhguru's instructors would be vehemently opposed to combining Shambavi with other practices. I'm an experienced meditator and have low sensitivity. I'm not sure how other people might respond to this potentially explosive cocktail.

The logic for the routine is that Tummo/Kriya Supreme Fire may well be the ultimate yogic practice and the only one needed in the long term.   I'm doing Mahamudra and Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya before because I find them enjoyable and beneficial. Also, the Kundalini book on Leo's list recommends doing some preliminary practices to take the edge off Supreme Fire. 

As a bonus, I found that it's useful to do the Wim Hof method another time or at least take cold showers.  The reason is that Tibetan yogis practice Tummo alongside extreme cold exposure. The hypothesis, suggested by Wim Hof himself, is that the stress from cold exposure sends the body a message that it should generate heat when you do Kriya Supreme Fire/Inner Fire.

What do you think? Am I missing out on anything by skipping Kriya Pranayama?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[Batman]

I never took Kriya Yoga practices, but I sense that it is the same with meditation and other breathing practices - just ways to manipulate the mind. This may help in achieving states, but any state is temporary. Some states may be more conducive for awakening, but there is no guarantee in that.

IMO, this is more of a lifestyle thing. The mind is trying to find practices that will make it feel better, which is ok and might be useful - if you feel better and have less mind agitation than there less distraction to awaken. And sure, connecting the mind deeper to the body surely helps. So if this lifestyle promotes your growth and well being, why not?  

But I would be cautious to believe that yogic practices will produce real awakening. It is a bit like psychedelics, hoping that if we manipulate our inner self we will awaken. Sure, psychedelics can cause lead to glimpses/tastes that only lasts while the substance is effecting us, but when it is over it just becomes another experience for the mind to grasp hold to.

If you want to awaken kundalini so much, why bother with all this occult practices? Just go to an Ayahuasca ceremony. It will dissolve your mind in 30-60 minutes and kundalini will rise and push out of your emotional/energetic body all sort of crap that you hold on to. It will be a lot more effective and fast than sitting your anus on your heel and bending forward 1000 times. For real, why bother to spend so much time on breathing and stretching when you can just go and drink ayahuasca? It will be a stronger kundalini awakening than any yogic practice can get you. 

So, if you want to shape the body and the mind in a yogic fashion? why not, it is probably the best way. But if you want to awaken, I think you should consider self-inquiry. 

[OBEler]

@Batman you have some good points. 

But dont dismiss it just as an temporary experience. Your mind/body changes after the experience. You can see that in an MRT scan. 

[inFlow]

@Batman Never poo poo Kriya practice you have no idea where it could take you.

[Recursoinominado]

15 minutes ago, inFlow said:

@Batman Never poo poo Kriya practice you have no idea where it could take you.

Where it could take him?

[inFlow]

@Recursoinominado I have no idea

[Guest Edvardas]

Afaik Kriya Supreme Fire. 

But there are two things worth mentioning:

1. Be careful; you might get some side effects, like headaches, high heat, and others. 

2. The effectiveness of the technique does not matter. What matters is that you enjoy doing it. Else, you will not do it enough to reach enlightenment anyway. Of course, don't go doing some stupid, unverified techniques. 

I'm pretty sure the yoga I mentioned is a fast way, but it's so complicated and difficult to maintain that I would rather do 10x more of self-enquiry. 

[Christoph Werner]

Yogic practises can help you to gain mastery over your body. I never understand the argument, just do psychedelics, they are more powerful. Why not do both? What better things you are doing when you're not on psychedelics? Everyone has time for these practises and they are very helpful in rasising your baseline level of consciousness and you can definetly have awakenings with these practises. 

I do a combination of hatha yoga, pranayama kriyas, meditatation, psychedelics and self inquiry. I had awakenings in all of them. The psychedelic awakenings are the highest experiences and they make all the other practises much more powerful. However the awakening from the Kriyas are much more valueable, as I learned from them to go into bliss states whenever I want within 10-20 minutes doing meditation, as I Iearned from them how to hold  the body, how to breath. 

So stick with whatever practise you enjoy doing and that work for you. For me the more powerful one is Shakti Chalana Kriya learned from Sadhgurus Shoonya Intesive course. But there are probably many good ones out there.

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

. 

I do a combination of hatha yoga, pranayama kriyas, meditatation, psychedelics and self inquiry. I had awakenings in all of them. The psychedelic awakenings are the highest experiences and they make all the other practises much more powerful. However the awakening from the Kriyas are much more valueable, as I learned from them to go into bliss states whenever I want within 10-20 minutes doing meditation, as I Iearned from them how to hold  the body, how to breath. 

Can you get into bliss states without meditation? As far as I'm concerned the point of the practices are to build the skill of producing those states not just when you are doing the practice.

Still a good achievement tho', not trying to downplay it, just talking about what is possible).

 

[Dorje Chang]

15 hours ago, Batman said:

For real, why bother to spend so much time on breathing and stretching when you can just go and drink ayahuasca? It will be a stronger kundalini awakening than any yogic practice can get you. 

That's a good question. In my experience, Ayahuasca is not a magic pill.  I've taken it several times and while it was powerful and very helpful, there was no such awakening.  The other people in the ceremonies didn't experience anything like it either, since they were always talking about healing instead of any type of awakening.

The best approach seems to be the combination of meditation (including self-enquiry), real yoga, psychedelics, and any other practices one may resonate with it. 

I'd say that different schools of Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and yoga are the only systems that seem to produce enlightenment to a limited but significant extent.  In contrast, I know some Ayahuasca-based religions well, the ones in Brazil, and there's no indication that these religions lead to awakening in meaningful numbers despite regular ceremonies. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[Dorje Chang]

11 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

For me the more powerful one is Shakti Chalana Kriya learned from Sadhgurus Shoonya Intesive course. 

@Christoph Werner Worth a trip to India someday to learn it? I liked Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya more than I was expecting. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[Christoph Werner]

@Javfly33 @Javfly33

Short answer yes, but not as intense mostly. For me in the evening/ night time it is very easy. Through holding conversations with people or intensly listening to them, dancing, sex, looking someone in the eyes. Definetly tho my meditation creates much more psychedelic like bliss states. 

I don't view my practise as something I do to reach enlightenment or chase anything. For me it just makes my life flow more and I feel much more I'm in control of my energies. 

One goal I have is to live more with a quiet mind. Karma yoga is helping me do that. But it seems there is much more to learn and transcend. I'm always talking to myself in my mind, sometimes less, sometimes more. I really want to find a way to be quiet. 

If someone can give me tips on that I would appreciate. 

[Christoph Werner]

@Dorje Chang

44 minutes ago, Dorje Chang said:

@Christoph Werner Worth a trip to India someday to learn it? I liked Shambavi Mahamudra Kriya more than I was expecting. 

Shakti Chalana Kriya in my experience is 3-5 times more powerful than shambavi. I have not done any other Kriyas then the ones from Sadhguru, so I can't compare. All I know is everyone I spoke to who practises Shakti Chalana are amazed at the power of it.

So I'd say yes, worth a trip. Moreover you can experience living in a high conscious community and check out their amzing temples. Dhyanalinga is quite an amazing tool. 

[Dorje Chang]

2 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

Shakti Chalana Kriya in my experience is 3-5 times more powerful than shambavi. I have not done any other Kriyas then the ones from Sadhguru, so I can't compare. All I know is everyone I spoke to who practises Shakti Chalana are amazed at the power of it.

So I'd say yes, worth a trip. Moreover you can experience living in a high conscious community and check out their amzing temples. Dhyanalinga is quite an amazing tool. 

Interesting, thanks!

[inFlow]

17 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

However the awakening from the Kriyas are much more valuable

Couldn't agree more, the thing with Kriya is that you get these experiences SOBER! Which is way more scary to experience no self than on a psychedelic.

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

@Javfly33 @Javfly33

 

I don't view my practise as something I do to reach enlightenment or chase anything. For me it just makes my life flow more and I feel much more I'm in control of my energies. 

 

20 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

 

?

Keep going I guess then ?

[Batman]

12 hours ago, Dorje Chang said:

That's a good question. In my experience, Ayahuasca is not a magic pill.  I've taken it several times and while it was powerful and very helpful, there was no such awakening.  The other people in the ceremonies didn't experience anything like it either, since they were always talking about healing instead of any type of awakening.

The best approach seems to be the combination of meditation (including self-enquiry), real yoga, psychedelics, and any other practices one may resonate with it. 

I'd say that different schools of Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and yoga are the only systems that seem to produce enlightenment to a limited but significant extent.  In contrast, I know some Ayahuasca-based religions well, the ones in Brazil, and there's no indication that these religions lead to awakening in meaningful numbers despite regular ceremonies. 

I agree, generally I would say that all psychedelics are not magic pills. They are tools that under the right conditions can help in different ways.

The healing people are talking about in Ayahuasca ceremonies is no other than Kundalini that goes throught their system and causing them massive emotional release. If they didn't drink enough, it will probably will be a weak kundalini activation. But if you drink enough, this is what happens, which is also the reason a lot of times it is hard to handle such amount of energy in you and people can freak out because the mind lost control of the feelings and emotions that were repressed for a long time.

I understand that Kriya is regarded a potent energetic practice that can lead to higher states because of the energy manipulation. And this may be very beneficial for emotion work if the state is brought about by emotional release. But for awakening? I think people here confuse states with awakening. Awakening can happen in many states and circumstances, is Kriya practice the right one for it? I doubt so, because the focus and intention is on doing physical movements.