Competition in the modern world. The persistent dilemma in self development.

[UpperMaster]

The prevalent issue of competition. In our culture, it is embraced. School is competition, Career is competition...Survival is competition. I find that Spiritual masters fail to address the current implication of competition in our "orange" world and instead brush it off as low consciousness, ego mind activity. Instead many spiritual masters suggest using your time expressing yourself through "truth", through "love". I, and many people on this forum support this message.

However, I soon realized that I was taking in this wisdom like dogma, and that fundamentally there is some gap in my understanding that doesn't allow me to leave this stage "orange" train of thought. Additionally, I realized this pattern in other people on this forum. Sure you can appreciate wisdom from great guru's and spiritual teachers, but you still massively compete in the social matrix everyday. You still have an idea of how you are valued in society or your group. I remember seeing several posts in a span of a few months where people complained about feeling humiliated because they were viewed worse than others. This gap in understanding is clearly not exclusive to me.

The fundamental problem that I and multiple other people have, is that I can't imagine how winning could make your life worse. I can't imagine how being on top of the social hierarchy is not a good thing. The better you are at competing, the more resources society gives you because society rewards winners and results makers. The more resources you have the overall more possibilities you have to explore life. The more power you have, the more you can use this power for good.

I don't understand how competition is petty bullshit, when your required to compete in order to survive. Another post I read on the forum is how AI might jeopardize the user's art career. The gist of it was that artists couldn't compete with AI art any longer, meaning they can't profit from their art. Even @Leo Gura suggested to still continue making art just for the sake of it. But how is this good advice? If you can't even make a living, I don't think exploring life will be any of your concern.

I don't want to act as if I transcended "competition" "social hierarchy" when I haven't.

So basically it comes down to two questions

1. How does one transcend competition and social hierarchy without sacrificing one's survival?

2. What is the healthiest view on competition as a whole?

I've thought about this a whole lot, so I will rebuttal arguments which I feel have gaps in them.

Edited November 13, 2022 by UpperMaster

[NoSelfSelf]

By competing with yourself as cliche that it sounds...

Creating your own unique value so its only you in that niche basically...

Edited November 13, 2022 by NoSelfSelf

[UpperMaster]

25 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

By competing with yourself as cliche that it sounds...

Creating your own unique value so its only you in that niche basically...

There's a book called Mastery by Robert Greene. He touches on this. He claims that there are two ways to become a master. Either compete in an already existing field, or create a completely new field. He gives many examples and isn't biased towards either. I think having a unique value is great however I think if you inspire to get into a field where you will have to compete like a NBA basketball player, then you should still work towards your goal.

I don't think it's wrong to compete whatsoever.

[NoSelfSelf]

@UpperMaster yeah i love competing its addicting and it fuels growth but comparing with others in the process is problem becoming best you and then test it in competition is formula...

[UpperMaster]

@NoSelfSelf Yes agree, well said.

[UpperMaster]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Not everyone wants to be at the top. I don't mind to be in a "low hierarchical" place, I live by my own rules. I care enough to survive, but I do the bare minimum and I'm fine, I work in workplaces that aren't very demanding so I can do at my spare time what I really care about. I'm a minimalist, I don't have a lot of possessions, I don't spend money on the things that I don't need, I'm very strategic with money, I plan my budget carfully. I'm far from being rich and I do art for the sake of it. I hate doing commissions. 

I think this is great. You should do what you want to do.  I just wanted to understand why people have an issue with it considering it is such a core part of our survival in this era. I'll be blunt and admit that yes I want to be the best at my field because in my view, it don't seem to have many drawbacks. It is a core part of survival and being good in competition does award you in many ways.

 

Thanks for sharing

[hoodrow trillson]

 

7 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

The fundamental problem that I and multiple other people have, is that I can't imagine how winning could make your life worse. I can't imagine how being on top of the social hierarchy is not a good thing. The better you are at competing, the more resources society gives you because society rewards winners and results makers. The more resources you have the overall more possibilities you have to explore life. The more power you have, the more you can use this power for good.

 

If you cannot surrender to the rat race, you will forever be a hamster on the wheel.  And there's nothing really wrong with that.

However, the things you currently worry about right now in your life, will not be the same things you will worry about if you end up "on top of the social hierarchy".  In fact, those very same things you're worried about might get piled on by everything else by being at the top.  Hell, most of those new problems might be extremely stressful.

Exploring life?  You mean traveling and trying new food, buying expensive things and trying out new hobbies?  The typical normie shit?  Sure, it's fun but eventually you have to lie down on your bed with your own thoughts before going to sleep.  What then?

Let's say you get to the top of the social hierarchy in whatever manner you believe would be the case.  Then what?  Another airport, another country to travel in.  Then you're back home with your mind.  Then, you have to manage all that money and success to keep it and to keep your image looking good for everyone to see.  Then you're back home with your own mind.  New hobby!  Wow this is fun and interesting.  Then you're back home with your own mind.

So back to this question:

7 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

1. How does one transcend competition and social hierarchy without sacrificing one's survival?

If you transcend your "ego" (the little "i"), there's a possibility that you will see that the you in your life was never truly there.  Therefore, you can attain success in the social hierarchy in a manner that is playful to you, genuine and you don't take it so personal (because YOU are a fiction)  It's essentially a game and you know you will be "alright", no mental anxiety.

However, there is also a possibility if you "wake up" that you could do away with the whole success thing and become like a farmer or a surfer or a monk or something.  Something simple.  Can you live with that possibility?  Would being a 'nobody' to your friends and family and society as a whole, scare you?

 

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

7 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

I don't want to act as if I transcended "competition" "social hierarchy" when I haven't.

So basically it comes down to two questions

1. How does one transcend competition and social hierarchy without sacrificing one's survival?

2. What is the healthiest view on competition as a whole?

I've thought about this a whole lot, so I will rebuttal arguments which I feel have gaps in them.

I fall into the same trap, that most painful and obvious solution is to embrace a creator/artists mindset and accept that there are obstacles and challenges and see it as growth opportunity. Setbacks are inevitable. This is in a nutshell my personal experience. I struggle with this also from time to time.

[Tyler Robinson]

You're a very nice guy. Survival and competition will always exist. You don't need to be a victim of it though. You can always master yourself in many areas of life, use survival as a motivation rather than a grudge or resentment. You can be the best version of yourself that God wanted you to be. Don't compare yourself with others because everyone is unique so that will end jealousy. See what you can offer to the environment or universe. And grow and build those skills. You don't have to be too attached to social hierarchy and competition. You can be a passive observer. Meanwhile still working on self mastery. You don't need to be validated by anyone for what you achieve. You validate yourself when you make enough progress. The idea of survival will make you a tougher stronger better man. You can use it for growth. At the same time detached from social hierarchy. You don't need to bypass survival or sacrifice survival for the sake of spirituality. You can integrate survival into your spirituality. Spirituality is about love and survival is about mastery and growth. Both can go hand in hand. So focus on improving yourself in terms of health and wellness and other areas that you are passionate about. Meanwhile also focus on heart growth. This is the center of your love. Let your heart grow kinder and more loving everyday and pass this love to the world. Growing your heart is how you grow love. So your mind and body is about mastery and survival whereas your heart is about spirituality. Grow all of these elements of your self and you're achieving completion as a human being. I hope this makes sense to you. 

[Heart of Space]

Comparing yourself to others and seeing where you exist on hierarchies can be extremely important.  It can be what drives you, even if it makes you unhappy.  Anything that makes you less competitive is undesirable.

Don't be afraid of the pain of insecurity.  Spiritual people often get too locked into a world that doesn't exist for modern human beings who like air conditioning, material wealth, and an attractive partner.  

The only time you would ignore those things is if you're living a monastic lifestyle, living only for God.  Of course there is always a compromise of these two conflicting ways of life.  Plan on living a long life and you can change your values as you get closer to death.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by Heart of Space

[UpperMaster]

8 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

If you cannot surrender to the rat race, you will forever be a hamster on the wheel.  And there's nothing really wrong with that.

However, the things you currently worry about right now in your life, will not be the same things you will worry about if you end up "on top of the social hierarchy".  In fact, those very same things you're worried about might get piled on by everything else by being at the top.  Hell, most of those new problems might be extremely stressful.

Yes.
However, it is apparent to me that whether you consider yourself spiritual or not, you virtually have to partake in the rat race if you want to live in modern society.

On your note on problems when your successful. I think that there are ways to compete, and in order to compete effectively you must be able to manage yourself efficiently. I remember when I was younger that although I used to be competitive, I also was too hard on myself and that actually stopped me from being competence. Although I am not perfect yet, I think I have a healthier view on competition and understand that in order to succeed one must not take things too personally.

10 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Exploring life?  You mean traveling and trying new food, buying expensive things and trying out new hobbies?  The typical normie shit?  Sure, it's fun but eventually you have to lie down on your bed with your own thoughts before going to sleep.  What then?

Yes, exactly, but you can use your logic for absolutely everything. You can take a bunch of psychedelics learn a lot about reality but then what?

Also, I don't simply mean travel and live a life full of degeneracy. If you have 500 million in your bank, a phone full of connections and good health, you can aim to solve many problems that the planet faces today. You have freedom to revolutionize the education system, combat illness in third world countries. You can do so much more than if you are in your dead end job.

10 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

17 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

1. How does one transcend competition and social hierarchy without sacrificing one's survival?

If you transcend your "ego" (the little "i"), there's a possibility that you will see that the you in your life was never truly there.  Therefore, you can attain success in the social hierarchy in a manner that is playful to you, genuine and you don't take it so personal (because YOU are a fiction)  It's essentially a game and you know you will be "alright", no mental anxiety.

However, there is also a possibility if you "wake up" that you could do away with the whole success thing and become like a farmer or a surfer or a monk or something.  Something simple.  Can you live with that possibility?  Would being a 'nobody' to your friends and family and society as a whole, scare you?

You bring up a pretty important subject, in my opinion. While letting rid of your ego may enable you to live a happier life, you will likely stop caring as much about success as you once did. Transcending your ego however is not an easy task, and quiet frankly I don't understand how it works yet.

[UpperMaster]

11 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

You're a very nice guy. Survival and competition will always exist. You don't need to be a victim of it though. You can always master yourself in many areas of life, use survival as a motivation rather than a grudge or resentment. You can be the best version of yourself that God wanted you to be. Don't compare yourself with others because everyone is unique so that will end jealousy. See what you can offer to the environment or universe. And grow and build those skills. You don't have to be too attached to social hierarchy and competition. You can be a passive observer. Meanwhile still working on self mastery. You don't need to be validated by anyone for what you achieve. You validate yourself when you make enough progress. The idea of survival will make you a tougher stronger better man. You can use it for growth. At the same time detached from social hierarchy. You don't need to bypass survival or sacrifice survival for the sake of spirituality. You can integrate survival into your spirituality. Spirituality is about love and survival is about mastery and growth. Both can go hand in hand. So focus on improving yourself in terms of health and wellness and other areas that you are passionate about. Meanwhile also focus on heart growth. This is the center of your love. Let your heart grow kinder and more loving everyday and pass this love to the world. Growing your heart is how you grow love. So your mind and body is about mastery and survival whereas your heart is about spirituality. Grow all of these elements of your self and you're achieving completion as a human being. I hope this makes sense to you. 

I agree. I think becoming too involved with it could be problematic, however ignoring social hierarchy all together is also problematic.

[UpperMaster]

9 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I see, we all have different values, beliefs, goals, hence we have different survivul strategies. 

sure

 

9 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Competition is importent and as I see it, ultimately the real competition is not against others but ourselves

Competition against yourself is very important. Competition against others is also important in the social context for resources, however I do acknowledge that although competing with others can push you, competing with others can also limit you in a way. So yea I agree.

 

9 hours ago, Lila9 said:

More importent for me is to to get to the point where I feel that I'm at my best, and my potential is expressed.

good lad