Leo, where are you?

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

On 2022-11-13 at 5:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

And then I have to write down all the news which just pour forth at such a rate that I would be writing for hours each day if I tried to catch them all.

As I said, I feel like I opened a permanent portal in my skull into another dimension. It feels like there is dark light in the center of my skull when my eyes are closed. This light bursts forth with visions, insights, and new deeper awakenings. It had been a bit much lately. It has also made my hyper creative and artistic.

I suspect that I have done so many psychedelics that they have permanently rewired my brain. That's how it feels right now. Waiting to see if it's just a passing phase.

   You deserve a long break from this. Please take care of yourself, that doesn't sound like a good place to be in, although it's awesome, but it's a sign you're pushing a bit too far.

[Egodeathrow]

@Leo Gura I can relate with much of what you are saying here. This has been my daily experience as well, Maybe not exact to yours but it is like an effortless consciousness I can just ride on, Lately I have not even been seeing rooms just my own mind, Even the sensation of it being a seperate room is immediately right here it is like a nonspecific permanent samadhi with anything throughout my experience, Although there are gradations of awareness and I can fall totally asleep thinking I’m awake when I’m not, It’s like nested unconsciousness for me that the only barrier is these assumed buildups of unconsciousness like air-pockets between connections, I suppose that’s a feature not a bug though that I have an aspect that is totally dead and unaware to whatever happens in consciousness no matter how lively the sights are I am completely aware that it’s nothing. Basically I am living as my realized imagination and it’s complete nothingness, I am imagining everything just as I imagine an apple in my thoughts. But it has an alien quality but I think it’s separate from what your talking about this is so depersonalized I wouldn’t even call it alien, Alien is not enough, I don’t find the label alien satisfying for me cause I sense it as beyond alien but a complete mind duck of a nonexistent oddity yet not alien or different, It’s not alien it’s absolute familiarness within everything, If an alien were to come to me yes there would be ego shock but that’s me! The extent to which I cannot see the sameness within alienness is my delusion that prevents me from samadhi with all items of my imagination, These realizations and insights all feel so very fresh for me, I am infinite consciousness is the main insight, I just get pummeled by roiling infinity as you described it in your salvia episode all the time, It’s a total recontextualization of every single content of my perceptions, It is quite hallucinatory but it’s less than my metaphysical contemplations used to be which is weird I have reached a point of integration where I can integrate some of the more far out imaginings, Before I was always giving my friends I was trying to teach just straight up whacky examples of relativity with like ideas of like stuff they wouldn’t think is real in consensus, Now it’s just an infinitely present room or whatever is here, It’s a room for me right now. and it goes meta, That’s where psychedelics are leading me rather than tangential hallucinations nowadays, Psychedelics are just more of this than I would be experiencing on a daily basis but same insights, Just different approaches and magnitudes of consciousness but same dynamics apply at the highest level, I have one question though if you integrate all difference with you really be able to perceive anything as alien or truly different? Why’s it alien if I’m everything,including all of the strains of infinity? Isn’t everything going to obviously encompass all difference and divergence? alien being maximum divergence from what we consider normal, Isn’t that a part of the natural that it is the supernatural?

[Egodeathrow]

the way people suddenly are weaponizing their ideas of science against Leo now just because of this alien awakening topic is kinda disheartening to me, Why’s it gotta be science why can’t it be direct perception of reality without a mediator? I would argue that consensus would not be the place to look, Your assuming that’s more fundamental for truth when it’s not, You gotta be the truth to perceive the truth, Otherwise it will just be an empty message and you will hallucinate that there was nothing there when the message contained everything you needed you just weren’t paying attention, But we will see in the future if Leo’s proof is satisfactory, Still won’t change my absolute experience, Sure of it. Absolute definitely comes first than alien if Leo’s videos become more about alien than absolute then that will draw some objections from me but I mean he hasn’t given us any ideas yet maybe he will give us scientific explanations but I wouldn’t count on it just because your expectations want that, That isn’t more truthful if we had a scientist validate it since the scientist or culture could be wrong, So could Leo but also so could the culture judging Leo. Don’t drown in your bias you guys you will see whether this is satisfactory or not in the end, assuming you really care about truth you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, Don’t believe Leo but also don’t believe your ideas of what truth ought to show up in. The concept of alien doesn’t ring my truth bell immediately so I will definitely be curious to see where these ideas really lead to,if anywhere hopefully something really enriching and truthful, If they aren’t then I will just stick to my already absolute experience as it always is unaffected by other peoples concepts whether relatively right or wrong they may be… I am not in favor of either Leo or the skeptics of Leo who think he should be more scientific and non psychotic by the consensus standards, Leo may not be psychotic don’t just assume he is

[Egodeathrow]

also, I’m not talking about the absolute of the concepts of advaida I’m talking about the absolute of this right now  it’s not going anywhere it’s changeless as radical and dynamic as it is

Edited November 14, 2022 by Egodeathrow

[VictorB02]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

And then I have to write down all the news which just pour forth at such a rate that I would be writing for hours each day if I tried to catch them all.

As I said, I feel like I opened a permanent portal in my skull into another dimension. It feels like there is dark light in the center of my skull when my eyes are closed. This light bursts forth with visions, insights, and new deeper awakenings. It had been a bit much lately. It has also made my hyper creative and artistic.

I suspect that I have done so many psychedelics that they have permanently rewired my brain. That's how it feels right now. Waiting to see if it's just a passing phase.

Thats wild. I'm excited to hear more about this, but take care Leo. Hopefully it stabilizes and will return to a balanced level soon. Wishing you well man.

Edited November 14, 2022 by VictorB02
edit

[thisintegrated]

Isn't the title meant to be.. where art thou??

[JosephKnecht]

17 hours ago, OBEler said:

@JosephKnecht how Do you define consensus reality. Maybe human beings on earth live in their little distorted bubble and the real consensus reality is between universal conscious entitys with god like power communicating and sharing with each other their unlimited creativity and love for eternity

I am not trying to define anything. 

The only thing I know is that those who stray away too much from 'consensus' reality are disowned by those living in 'it'. 

[flowboy]

On 13/11/2022 at 6:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

And then I have to write down all the news which just pour forth at such a rate that I would be writing for hours each day if I tried to catch them all.

As I said, I feel like I opened a permanent portal in my skull into another dimension. It feels like there is dark light in the center of my skull when my eyes are closed. This light bursts forth with visions, insights, and new deeper awakenings. It had been a bit much lately. It has also made my hyper creative and artistic.

I suspect that I have done so many psychedelics that they have permanently rewired my brain. That's how it feels right now. Waiting to see if it's just a passing phase.

@Leo Gura Maybe have another chat with Martin Ball? Seems like he went through something similar, becoming hyper creative suddenly etc.

[khalifa]

@flowboy martin's just going to tell him to do another one most likely, that's what he told me when i told him i keep tripping everyday multiple times a night

he mentioned i need to do one to complete the energy as the trip is trying to continue to finish something, so i have to trip full force and let go, give up breathing and just die and wait to be reborn again

 

I thought he was insane when he said that as i was already terrified enough wanting to be normal, took me around the 8months to notice a difference, at the 2nd year pretty much a bottle neck of improvement, i still trip randomly with nouctral panic attacks but the frequency is much less now

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, khalifa said:

martin's just going to tell him to do another one most likely, that's what he told me when i told him i keep tripping everyday multiple times a night

he mentioned i need to do one to complete the energy as the trip is trying to continue to finish something, so i have to trip full force and let go, give up breathing and just die and wait to be reborn again

It's a crazy advice but not for that reason wrong. crazy because it's too risky, but the idea makes sense.

Leo is much more penetrating than Martin Ball. I'm sure he will find the perfect solution, I'm not worried at all

[julienw]

On 11/13/2022 at 0:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

And then I have to write down all the news which just pour forth at such a rate that I would be writing for hours each day if I tried to catch them all.

As I said, I feel like I opened a permanent portal in my skull into another dimension. It feels like there is dark light in the center of my skull when my eyes are closed. This light bursts forth with visions, insights, and new deeper awakenings. It had been a bit much lately. It has also made my hyper creative and artistic.

I suspect that I have done so many psychedelics that they have permanently rewired my brain. That's how it feels right now. Waiting to see if it's just a passing phase.

@Leo Gura Have you heard of the book The Evolutionary Energy in Man by Gopi Krishna? This sounds a lot like what he experienced. Unfortunately it was years of hell that eventually calmed down to the point where he could live happily and led him to being a very awakened mystic poet. I hope you don't have to endure all of that suffering to get to the other side, but it might be worth reading to help ground yourself in someone else's similar experience. He was literally receiving novel's worth of mystical poetry in the form of light and he learned how to harness all of that energy.

Edited November 15, 2022 by julienw

[newbee]

7 hours ago, khalifa said:

@flowboy

martin's just going to tell him to do another one most likely, that's what he told me when i told him i keep tripping everyday multiple times a night

he mentioned i need to do one to complete the energy as the trip is trying to continue to finish something, so i have to trip full force and let go, give up breathing and just die and wait to be reborn again

I thought he was insane when he said that as i was already terrified enough wanting to be normal, took me around the 8months to notice a difference, at the 2nd year pretty much a bottle neck of improvement, i still trip randomly with nouctral panic attacks but the frequency is much less now

Martin Ball is insane and a total creep.  Proof in the video below and further evidence that doing mutliple 5meo dmt trips and trying to integrate it does not lead to enlightenment, but more delusion:

(btw sounds like you and Leo have longterm psychotic episodes from tripping (too much)), so yea doing more psychedelics is not good advice)  

In this video, Martin W. Ball, Ph.D. discusses his enthusiasm for vomiting on clients, touching his clients' genitals, and forcing his thumbs down their throats while "guiding" them under the influence of 5-MeO-DMT.

[OBEler]

@newbee @khalifavomitingon@khalifavomitingon

Vomiting on clients, playing with genitals or whatever sounds crazy for normal people with zero understanding about energy work. Martin ball is an expert on this field and a Pioneer. He did this with his clients in total consens and they were thankful to him resolving their trauma with this special practise. Everyone knows what they get into. 

You have no idea what you are talking about, as your name already says

 

 

 

 

 

[newbee]

42 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@newbee @khalifavomitingon@khalifavomitingon

 He did this with his clients in total consens and they were thankful to him resolving their trauma with this special practise. Everyone knows what they get into. 

Oh yea? How do you know that for certain that *every* of his clients consented to having their genitals touched (he himself justified it in the video, not because they consented to it but as he said, because they 'needed it' (according to himself of course)) and being vomited on and grateful for it too? You can't possibly know this unless you talked to every single one of them. Were they informed *prior* to given the drug that that would be part of the session? If not, they can not give their consent while under the influence of a psychedelic drug. 

Just like someone mentioned in the comment section, it sounds like he mistakes his conscience for his ego and because in the New Age world 'ego=bad', he dismisses every objection coming from his conscience as a 'bad comment from the ego' so he can easily dismiss it and worse, when somebody else objects to his despicable behavior he'll identify that also as coming from their ego and dismiss their objection.  Consent much?  This dude is so far out that consent has lost all meaning.  Stay far away is what I would say!

Edited November 15, 2022 by newbee

[OBEler]

@newbee Dude, you are the one who should give proof. Because you make a strong claim against Martin Ball. Did you asked any of his clients? How Do you come to this idea? You just assume that it were without consensus. 

 I did my research. Look also in this video

 

There is no case that anything happened against their will. They knew exactly before the psychedelic experience what can happen and if it is ok. Martin ball makes no secret of it, everyone knows what they get into. 

 

So next time you blame someone about things you have no idea of, do at least some research before spreading your wild assumptions. 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by OBEler

[newbee]

19 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@newbee

You did your research? Lol what did that entail? You found all his clients and talked to each one of them? Nonsense!

And the reason why I can say what he does is f*cking wrong is because of what comes out of Martin Ball's mouth himself, he said he touches some of his clients genitals, NOT because they consented but because he thinks they needed it. 

The uploader of the video you posted , said this in a comment:

"The bottom line though is that it doesn’t matter what I think, nor you, nor Psymposia. All that matters is what his clients think, and if they want to pay some dude to get high and throw up on them then that is literally none of your business."

Well that's what I also thought at the beginning of the creepy video about M.B. ; if his adult clients consented to being vomited on , that's their business.  However on second thought, if they only consented while under the influence of the drug, that can not be considered consent.  On top of that, it is clear further into the video that he does very questionable things (such as touching people's genitals -- also why on earth would that be necessary??) and states he did that because HE THINKS THEY NEEDED IT . So where is the proof they were informed prior to the session that he may think they need this during the session and follow up on it and consented to that? 

He also dismissed somebody saying NO to him, so what more proof do you need that they do not all gave their consent?

Also, just because you didn't find clients online who announced they were abused by him doesnt mean they don't exist. Some victims don't dare to speak out and for the record, there are other shamans known to have sexually abused their clients while under the influence of psychedelic drugs, so vigilance is needed in the community instead of blind defense of any psychedelic promotor.

 

[Dorje Chang]

19 minutes ago, newbee said:

The uploader of the video you posted , said this in a comment:

"The bottom line though is that it doesn’t matter what I think, nor you, nor Psymposia. All that matters is what his clients think, and if they want to pay some dude to get high and throw up on them then that is literally none of your business."

Anyone who thinks that consent is a sufficient condition for an act to be OK should watch the 1988 French-Dutch film The Vanishing.  It will be a much-needed slap in the face.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[julienw]

46 minutes ago, Dorje Chang said:

Anyone who thinks that consent is a sufficient condition for an act to be OK should watch the 1988 French-Dutch film The Vanishing.  It will be a much-needed slap in the face.

I'd also like to add that consent does not apply in situations where a person is under the influence, of any drug. Even if they consent in that moment, they may not be making a conscious choice and once they sober up they may feel as though they were violated despite having "consented." They may not even remember having provided consent. That's sexual assault 101. Also @OBEler if all we're hearing is the perpetrator's side of the story (i.e. Martin), of course it is going to come across in his favor. He has all the power in that situation so no it is not okay for him to get people absolutely blasted on the most powerful psychedelic in the world and then do things to them under the guise of "they needed it." That's an abuse of power and in certain situations blatant sexual assault. If you watched that video and didn't come away from it with the conclusion that Martin was rationalizing abuse of his clients, then I really don't understand how you're conceptualizing this.

Edited November 15, 2022 by julienw

[newbee]

18 minutes ago, julienw said:

I'd also like to add that consent does not apply in situations where a person is under the influence, of any drug. Even if they consent in that moment, they may not be making a conscious choice and once they sober up they may feel as though they were violated despite having "consented." They may not even remember having provided consent. That's sexual assault 101. Also @OBEler if all we're hearing is the perpetrator's side of the story (i.e. Martin), of course it is going to come across in his favor. He has all the power in that situation so no it is not okay for him to get people absolutely blasted on the most powerful psychedelic in the world and then do things to them under the guise of "they needed it." That's an abuse of power and in certain situations blatant sexual assault. If you watched that video and didn't come away from it with the conclusion that Martin was rationalizing abuse of his clients, then I really don't understand how you're conceptualizing this.

Yup it is abuse of power.  Another disconcerting thing he said was that women supposedly react way more sexually to 5meo DMT than men do.  If he is so 'enlightened', how comes he lacks the self-awareness to not realize that those are his own interpretations to their out of control reactions to a drug and therefore says a lot more about his own sexual thoughts/projections than their actual reaction to the drug..?

[OBEler]

I dont deny there can be an abuse of Power during such sessions. But throw this claim to Martin Ball, there should be at least one Solid proof out there. 

Some people WANT to be touched on their genitals, be pissed or vomited on whatever. When it happens in consensus between two adults (before, while and after taking 5 meo), then whats wrong about this. You just make assumptions that no one were in consensus with this. Then please Name these Persons

Edited November 15, 2022 by OBEler