pedophiles rights

[Majed]

which spiral dynamics stage would support the rights of pedophiles ?

[Roy]

Late green +. What does your question even mean though? Pedophiles already have the same rights as everyone else, unless they have been convicted. The title refers to someone with a specific sexual preference and act of potentially committing a crime.

You mean a sort of funded social program to treat and reduce their condition, like legal injection sites for drug addicts?

Edited November 11, 2022 by Roy

[Majed]

@Roy sort of like being open about being a pedophile without the whole taboo and stigma behind it. even though i think it (the taboo) serves for a reason in this day and age. in the future in a more developed world. i think pedophilia will be treated very differently, more compassion towards the pedophile for sure as people move up the spiral and are able to take on multiple perspectives.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Majed

[Roy]

Yes it feels like even though technology has skyrocketed ahead relative to the past 200 years, culturally we are still very much in the dark ages. Even in the developed world, the average person is quite bigoted and limited in the mind.

[Danioover9000]

@Majed

On 2022-11-11 at 9:24 PM, Majed said:

which spiral dynamics stage would support the rights of pedophiles ?

   Stage green, yellow and turquoise and above, especially the social infrastructure to help their condition and to give them a place or community away from being too persecuted or demonized for having a hardwired attraction. However, the world is still in the dark ages and easily get triggered and will go out of their way to silence or kill such people. We are a long way to go, not just for pedophilia, but for reversing many types of stigmas and fears of those who are, or small groups of abnormal people or paranormally gifted people to the point we can have a conversation without freaking out and being deeply close minded and defensive.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Danioover9000

[StarStruck]

[Eyowey]

I predict that as humanity reaches stage yellow we will stop counting people's age. Everyone will look 21 forever as healthcare improves so age will be irrelevant. I think the reason pedophilia is illegal is because pedophiles made it illegal. Because they don't want competition. 

It's the same with everything. They don't want you to do it but they do it themselves.

 

[Danioover9000]

   One real world example is that time with the Japanese guy, that killed and ate a French woman, almost gets the death penalty in France, but was instead deported to Japan where they housed him under house arrest, did a bunch of psychological tests, and frees him, under surveillance. Here's the documentary. Japan is an interesting society:

 

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Eyowey said:

I think the reason pedophilia is illegal is because pedophiles made it illegal. Because they don't want competition. 

It's the same with everything. They don't want you to do it but they do it themselves.

I mean… just no…

It’s illegal because the majority of the population find it repulsive, exploitative to the highest degree, and harmful, like murder or rape…

 

[Eyowey]

4 minutes ago, something_else said:

It’s illegal because the majority of the population find it repulsive, exploitative to the highest degree, and harmful, like murder or rape…

If that were true then it would have been illegal throughout history just like rape and murder. The criminalization of pedophilia is a new thing. Mostly a western thing. Just over a hundred years ago you were allowed to marry a twelve year old. But now the government wants girls ''educated'' and in the work force instead of being wives. 

[Tyler Robinson]

 

40 minutes ago, Eyowey said:

If that were true then it would have been illegal throughout history just like rape and murder. The criminalization of pedophilia is a new thing. Mostly a western thing. Just over a hundred years ago you were allowed to marry a twelve year old. But now the government wants girls ''educated'' and in the work force instead of being wives. 

Your logic is extremely wrong.

And you're applying it flippantly without deep reflection. 

Older civilizations okayed a lot of immoral things because they lived like uncivilized beasts. Older civilizations okayed stoning adulterers. They okayed domestic violence against women and children. They okayed killing heretics and anyone who went against the Kings word. Should we bring back all these uncivilized abhorrent practices? 

Older civilizations even okayed slavery of black people. Should we bring back that too? 

Older civilizations okayed killing of mentally ill people, even torturing them. Should we bring back that too? 

Then why should pedophilia get a pass just because people did it in old times. 

Pedophilia is a serious crime since it involves child sexual abuse and children end up traumatized after that.

It should be punished and rehabilitation options should be given to those who are nomaps and those willing to change. 

It's even more serious than rape and murder since it can impact many children and ruin their lives forever. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Eyowey

4 hours ago, Eyowey said:

If that were true then it would have been illegal throughout history just like rape and murder. The criminalization of pedophilia is a new thing. Mostly a western thing. Just over a hundred years ago you were allowed to marry a twelve year old. But now the government wants girls ''educated'' and in the work force instead of being wives. 

   I see, you are a well seasoned troll. Instead of going for a long, slow troll, you take the more intense slow trolling. I guess you like your steaks done Chicago style, while most like theirs well done or medium well.

[Ulax]

Gween

[Eyowey]

5 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Pedophilia is a serious crime since it involves child sexual abuse and children end up traumatized after that.

If you believe that sex below an arbitrary man-made age always results in trauma then I don't know what to tell you. It's like debating with a christian.

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

 I see, you are a well seasoned troll.

Attacking the person instead of his ideas. Stage green spotted. 

[Tyler Robinson]

Just now, Eyowey said:

If you believe that sex below an arbitrary man-made age always results in trauma then I don't know what to tell you. It's like debating with a christian.

I think your biggest problem is that you are disconnected from reality. You're romanticizing love between an adult and a child. But children don't have the emotional capacity to understand the intricacies of sex. The adult enjoys it in a normal way but the child won't look at it the same way. They will look at it like eating chocolate. They won't experience intimacy like an adult does. 

This can permanently deprive them of real intimacy in the future as an adult. They will develop self esteem issues, self destructive behavior and feelings of being exploited. 

It's called grooming. I went through something similar. It's not good. It leads to a lot of dysfunction as an adult. Codependency issues and chances of narcissistic abuse. 

 

[Eyowey]

1 hour ago, Tyler Robinson said:

children don't have the emotional capacity to understand the intricacies of sex

If animals can understand sex then so can we. Sex ed exists but everyone knows that's a joke. It's like being taught that you have a nose. But lets assume that what you're saying is true. That's the equivalent of saying that you should not use your legs until they are fully grown.

That being said I think marriage is better than casual sex in most cases. 

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Eyowey said:

If animals can understand sex then so can we. Sex ed exists but everyone knows that's a joke. It's like being taught that you have a nose. But lets assume that what you're saying is true. That's the equivalent of saying that you should not use your legs until they are fully grown.

So just because you know how to have sex, you suddenly know what the ramification of sex? Just because you have a nose and you know how to use your nose, you know what the ramification is, if for instance you snort coke?

What does that mean, that animals can understand sex? They know from their instinct how to have sex, but thats far from understanding the ramifications.

3 hours ago, Eyowey said:

It's like debating with a christian.

Speaking of religions, earlier in this thread you said, that being a pedo was considered okay back then, because people could marry with underaged children. Thats not true, thats only true when it comes to certain religions like Islam. I don't think you believe that we should derive our collective morals from a holybook.

3 hours ago, Eyowey said:

If you believe that sex below an arbitrary man-made age always results in trauma then I don't know what to tell you.

Its sort of arbitrary, but not totally. Do you think that generally speaking a 10-12 year old child has the same level of  maturity, brain development, has the same level of knowledge about relationship dynamics as an 18 year old? The argument is not necessarily about trauma, although I think we should take into account that aspect as well, the real problem is ,that children can't properly consent to have sex with an adult, because of huge power differences including physical and mental as well and because in the vast majority of the cases, children are immature and don't know the ramifications of most of their actions, thats why their parents are responsible for their kid's action.

One thing we know for sure, is that as time goes by you have the potientiality to mature, and that can't be denied. Thats a dynamic that can be observed everywhere.

Edited November 14, 2022 by zurew

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Eyowey said:

If you believe that sex below an arbitrary man-made age always results in trauma then I don't know what to tell you. It's like debating with a christian.

Yea, around the actual age of consent it's a grey area, that's why there are things like romeo and juliet laws, and often other conditions. For example where I live the age of consent is 16, unless the older party is in a position of power over the other, then it becomes 18. Like, of course it's just an arbitrary line. No one disputes that. It isn't even really what we are talking about when we talk about pedophiles.

There was a 50-something year old dude near me arrested recently for having ~10k pictures of girls aged between two and 14, and for having touched several in that age range as well. Even by 1800s standards that would be considered disgusting and criminal. Those are the kinds of people we are talking about here.

10 hours ago, Eyowey said:

If that were true then it would have been illegal throughout history just like rape and murder. The criminalization of pedophilia is a new thing. Mostly a western thing. Just over a hundred years ago you were allowed to marry a twelve year old. But now the government wants girls ''educated'' and in the work force instead of being wives. 

There were plenty of things we did in the past that caused immense suffering/trauma for those involved.

I don't think that your argumentative style is worth my time engaging with, so this will be my last response to you.

Edited November 14, 2022 by something_else

[Majed]

@Eyowey dude where the fuck did you get the idea that pedophiles outlawed pedophilia because they don’t want competition ???

[How to be wise]

@Majed Pedos need rehabilitation. Plus, it isn’t necessarily bad to be pedophobic, for the sake of the children.