Is This A Paradox Or Can Anyone Help Explain?

[Nahm]

@John Flores If I remember correctly from one of Leo's videos, the point is more to allow a release of an insight through the layers of "who am I" to get to the higher everything you realization. Sorry if that was a spoiler.

 

jk

[Nahm]

@blazed Did you watch it again yet? ??‍♂️

[Little Plant]

Couldn't the paradox of freewill and no freewill be compared to WestWorld? they choose what they wanna do and say based on their programming. They can't escape that they in fact are programmed, so there is never any "real" free will, at least until the end   They do truly feel their actions are based on their own thoughts, but the thoughts are not theirs ... waff

[MsNobody]

Thinking about freewill

- our higher self want to just BE

- our ego want things, possessions, beliefs, money etc

we actually don't know what we want, like Leo's video about 10 things we want and we don't know

If our freewill is based on what our ego wants then we don't have free will, if our free will is serving our higher self, yes we do have freewill

is that too mind fuck? My mind is gonna explode, or my brain, or my thoughts, I still don't know what I am..

[Neo]

My real point of this thread was on the fact that there's many people on this site who say they can separate from the ego, and look back at themselves going about their business automatically. And that fact alone proves they are acting without freewill. They are going about their thing like automatons.

If I've got that fact wrong - then let me know.

Then from that basis I was saying then, how come taking full responsibility for my universe as projected by my brain is so powerful and useful?

 

[Shin]

You're reponsible in the sense that you can always choose how to live the present moment.

EDIT: Well, if you're conscious enough to see through your emotions, otherwise you're a robot.

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Shin

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, blazed said:

If you kill your ego temporarily you cannot view your ego seperately. Thats just concepts on top of concepts, a second ego to judge the first ego.

When there is no ego, there is no voice in your head, no English words, no judgement, no reflection, no assessment.

I wouldn't worry about what people on this site say, sorry folks but if you're so enlightened and wise, you wouldn't spend your time on these forums fighting for truth or even feel the need to make people see from your POV. That goes for me too but I'm really put off by these forums lately, such a waste of time.

its all good man.  ?.  dont take anything seriously.  life is short and meaningless.   be happy with where u are.  you don't have the free will to do anything about it, so there is no sense beating up on yourself. just accept everything exactly how it is. also, don't be concerned with convincing people of anything.  just express your current views and listen to what other people express as a way to continue to reveal your own ignorance.   thats how i look at this anyways.  when i find more ignorance in me, i find opportunity to learn more, get more clarity and enjoy the precious ah hah moments

[dorg]

On 24/02/2017 at 0:23 AM, Neo said:

Is this a paradox or can anyone help explain?

Everything I have learnt is pointing me to the fact that taking personal responsibility is everything. You create your own universe right now, you are responsible for it. I have found this to be empowering and moves me on to better things. If I am part of god, then that makes sense too.

But then there is "no free will". There is no free will, so how could I have been responsible for anything?

In my experience, in the ego mind (lower mind) there is no free will, there is only thought to be  - however there seems to be free will when in this mind. In the higher mind there is no need for free will as there is only (self) awareness/observation.

Thus there is no paradox as you can move from one mind to the other. This is true free will and taking responsibility.

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by dorg

[Bob84]

On 2/23/2017 at 0:23 PM, Neo said:

Is this a paradox or can anyone help explain?

Everything I have learnt is pointing me to the fact that taking personal responsibility is everything. You create your own universe right now, you are responsible for it. I have found this to be empowering and moves me on to better things. If I am part of god, then that makes sense too.

But then there is "no free will". There is no free will, so how could I have been responsible for anything?

That question has no meaning. Regardless of the awnser your actions remain the same. Keep up being responsible. And dont fall for this pointless mental mastrubation.

If you dont take my word for it. Check what other enlightend people have to say on this. 

You are doing good 

[Nahm]

On 2/23/2017 at 6:23 AM, Neo said:

Is this a paradox or can anyone help explain?

Everything I have learnt is pointing me to the fact that taking personal responsibility is everything. You create your own universe right now, you are responsible for it. I have found this to be empowering and moves me on to better things. If I am part of god, then that makes sense too.

But then there is "no free will". There is no free will, so how could I have been responsible for anything?

"If I am part of God, then that makes sense too". With all due respect, this is where you're going wrong. That does not yet make sense to you. You say you are part of God, do you think you are part or do you think God is everything, thus all of you? 

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, Neo said:

My real point of this thread was on the fact that there's many people on this site who say they can separate from the ego, and look back at themselves going about their business automatically. And that fact alone proves they are acting without freewill. They are going about their thing like automatons.

If I've got that fact wrong - then let me know.

Then from that basis I was saying then, how come taking full responsibility for my universe as projected by my brain is so powerful and useful?

 

You can seperate from the ego. The only ways I know of are decades of meditation and connection and deconnection practices, or 5meodmt. People have done this. It's not so far out. 

You do have that fact wrong, if I'm reading and understanding your words accurately. There is a reason it's referred to as "waking up". When you realize that you were in auto robot mode, by default, you are aware of it and therefore free to do what you want - you can perceive what and when influences you - and there are 8 billion different versions of that happening - an enormous dynamic of variety from still sleeping to completely enlightened. 

Responsibility....powerful..... 

Emotions are powerful. Generally speaking, each person's  'things they don't want to talk about' compared to 'things they understand about reality' Are related. When somone doesn't want to talk about a category, it is because they have yet to resolve an incident in their past. When someone let's go of that incident and finds their own resolve, now they are emotionally free and naturally progress. Our emotions limit our progress. You seem to have already had this down before making this post. 

[Neo]

OK, thank you for all the replies, I will reply to some now and some later when I re-read everything.

 

Firstly, about mental masturbation. I have serious problem (apart from the masturbation one)! lol

I have said it before so I say it again, I work long hours and suffer tiredness constantly so I don't get in much meditation.

I recently moved to a nice peaceful place and thought I would have this idyllic lifestyle and meditation. My other half works hard too and in the evening she likes to watch TV and I find I can type on this forum ok, but not meditate.

I also can't try drugs because of my partner and I also used to abuse drugs and so it's just not a good idea.

Yes, I totally agree it's mental masturbation, but I'm trying to use the forum as a book that talks to me. By asking questions such as this one which are pertinent to me, I'm hoping really for a personalised book. And I already know your answer is; forget reading, forget the useless knowledge.

I am guilty of trying to gain knowledge and head spinning with tiredness and over-working, can't do anything. (you know the office sign that says "I'm too busy to be organised.")

 

So, one more point: see how one guy contradicts the other:

 

Quote

In my experience, in the ego mind (lower mind) there is no free will, there is only thought to be  - however there seems to be free will when in this mind. In the higher mind there is no need for free will as there is only (self) awareness/observation.

Thus there is no paradox as you can move from one mind to the other.

and...

 

Quote

If you kill your ego temporarily you cannot view your ego seperately. Thats just concepts on top of concepts, a second ego to judge the first ego.

When there is no ego, there is no voice in your head, no English words, no judgement, no reflection, no assessment.

I wouldn't worry about what people on this site say

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Neo

[Nahm]

seperating from the ego is dropping beliefs.  

there is no substitute for meditation.   put the horse before the cart regarding meditation and being too tired.  i worked a full time job while i was in college full time and had two part time jobs on top of that, and i still meditated every morning.    you can do it man.   write it on the wall with a permanent marker.    

[Emerald]

On 2/23/2017 at 6:23 AM, Neo said:

Is this a paradox or can anyone help explain?

Everything I have learnt is pointing me to the fact that taking personal responsibility is everything. You create your own universe right now, you are responsible for it. I have found this to be empowering and moves me on to better things. If I am part of god, then that makes sense too.

But then there is "no free will". There is no free will, so how could I have been responsible for anything?

You don't have free will because YOU don't exist as an entity. What you are is God. God has free will, so you have free will as God. But you don't have free will as Neo (or whatever your name is) , because Neo is not really what you are. Neo is a label put over a collection of processes and perceptions that are created and perceived by your awareness... which is the awareness of God. So, it isn't exactly a paradox, but it seems like one if you believe yourself to be a separate self and don't know you're God. 

[Nahm]

23 hours ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

You don't have free will because YOU don't exist as an entity. What you are is God. God has free will, so you have free will as God. But you don't have free will as Neo (or whatever your name is) , because Neo is not really what you are. Neo is a label put over a collection of processes and perceptions that are created and perceived by your awareness... which is the awareness of God. So, it isn't exactly a paradox, but it seems like one if you believe yourself to be a separate self and don't know you're God. 

thats a great post. thanks for that.  it is asking a lot of someone to go from not knowing they can make decisions and effect their day to realizing they are God.   you're right, just a big jump 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Nahm

[Nahm]

@I_Like_Thing Probably hard to believe, but one man's skeeball is another man's free will inquiry.

[Neo]

As it's turning into the "classic" debate on free will, I'm going to re-phrase the question; Does a non-dual perspective, or at least an experience of non-duality either prove or lead the person to believe in *no free will*?

Edited March 1, 2017 by Neo

[Nahm]

@Neo It's not the free will proof that matters to me, nor what we believe, nor whether I am right or wrong. It's the learning experience itself that I enjoy. I like learning about the topic and people, whether they are loving, decent, kind, ignorant, genius, insane. The more variety the better. To me it's more experience and builds a larger frame of reference and capacity. When we reach our capacity of thought, we become aggressive and belittling.  I like pushing the limits of my thinking as much as I like nonthinking meditation. Both result in more capacity to be connected and blissful. I don't find anything undesirable about a person who simply likes to play chess. I don't find anything undesirable about someone who wants to learn how the pieces are made. I'm interested. It's not the topic or subject matter. It's like fun. It's not found somewhere. We make fun. We make interest too. It does not behoove me to limit either. It feels awesome to expand either. For example, if you were talking with someone about quantum physics and they start using parables and analogies to elude the subject, there is something to be experienced and learned there as well. It's not good or bad, or right or wrong. It's not personal. I of course trust everything here is voluntary, no one is being held captive to having to read or comment on certain topics. It's all for fun, experience, and personal development. 

[Nahm]

@blazed Yes. Randomness is not free will. 

[Neo]

@Nahm I'm trying to actually steer the conversation away from the free will debate and I'm constantly asking what is it about meditation and enlightenment that leads people to believe there is no free will. But so far no answer. I would have been happy if the answer was simply "because it feels like it." however no such answer has come forward. On other threads I have seen contradictory information that this process leads one to think that because of the "perspective" of the god like state and one person suggesting your whole field of vision changes, but the extremely useful post from Emerald Wilkins above puts that to bed.