Awakening is a Dream!!!

[r0ckyreed]

This post is going to be very controversial, but I have been called to share my thoughts with ... Myself???

After some time contemplating what a dream really is, I have come to the realization that Awakening itself is a Dream!

How did I come to such a conclusion?  Well, we first must ask what a dream really is.  A dream is consciousness inventing a reality/story through trickery and deception.  As such, The Dream Doubt cannot be fully unraveled no matter how awake you are.  

For instance, I once had a dream (while sleeping at night) where I became lucid and realized that I was in a dream.  I then woke up, went up stairs immediately and talked to my mom about it.  I shared with her my excitement.  But then, I "actually" woke up and realized that my mind imagined me waking up just to keep me in the dream!!!!  This one dream I had redefined how I see spirituality, the concept of a dream, and awakening.  I was lucid in the dream or so I imagine I was.  It makes me wonder whether I was really awake or whether I was just dreaming that I was awake?

I had another dream where I my grandpa died (still alive now I am assuming at the time of this writing) and I asked my mom whether this was real and if this was a dream.  But of course, my mom (my mind) convinced me that it was real.  

These dreams really casted a major doubt upon me.  I realized that no matter how conscious I think I am, I can never penetrate beyond the dream doubt.  No matter how much meditation or psychedelics I do, it will all be a dream!  There is no awakening because that is what the dream imagines.  

The duality between Asleep and Awake collapses as it must.  The forum, Leo, Buddhism, psychedelics, meditation, and Awakening are part of the Dream!! This Dream is not going anywhere.  But maybe lucidity within this dream is still possible? Or is it just a self-deception to make me think I am awake when I aint?  Just because one is lucid within one dream does not mean one is lucid within all dreams.  My lucid dream made me realize that when you start to wake up, your mind is going to do everything to keep you asleep.  Even the resources/tools you think will wake you up like Leo, this forum, psychedelics, meditation, etc. will be used to keep you asleep.  I dreamt that I was lucid in a dream, and it should make one wonder whether true Awakening is even possible and if it is but just another dream within the dream.  How can we know anything for certain beyond the fact that Consciousness exists?  How can you ever transcend self-deception or unravel The Dream Doubt?  I don't think you can because to be dreaming requires self-deception, and there is no awakening without dreaming.  I don't think you can never not consider no matter what experiences you may have, that you could be dreaming them all up right now!!

Now, let me ask you (or other parts of myself) some questions. Given that reality is a self-deception or dream, how do you know you have awakened when it is possible that you are still inside of dream - a dream that has deceived you into thinking you have awakened when you really haven't?  How can you know?  How can acquire true understanding when ever tool you use is all part of dream?  And please, don't give me any answers like "You will only know when you awaken" because that assumes that you can awaken to something beyond a dream.  But how do we know there is anything beyond dreaming, and how can you know if you are awake?

By the way, there is nothing wrong with dreaming.  Awakening to me means realizing what is Absolutely True.  But what is Absolutely True?  Consciousness. The end.  Alien consciousness is just another dream within Absolute Consciousness.  Awakening is a Dream!  How does that sit with you (pun intended)?  

Please let me know what you think.  I cannot get past The Dream Doubt. Thanks!  

Edited November 10, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[amanen]

There are of course infinite degrees of lucidity within the dream. This reality itself is already built upon self-deception, the whole thing is deceptive in every way it occurs. There's no way going around that. Even as I write this everything is in a state of complete self-deception in every way, even the way you interact with the world is based on deception. Everything about it is deceptive.

But I would like to say that there is no reason why God cannot be in a state that is not deceptive to itself at all, where it totally knows itself, does not imagine an other, and so on, a state where God is just God. God doesn't always have to dream of being a being.

Edited November 10, 2022 by amanen

[Breakingthewall]

What you say is true in part. Imagine that you have done 5 meo, and the whole dream vanished, there was absolutely nothing left, and nothingness was revealed as infinity, and infinity as you, the total that it always is. the absolute, the glory. then I think: that is awakening. but that experience of infinity is something that I'm remembering right now. it is part of the current dream. It is only speculative. Right now I'm in the dream and I can't get out of it. if I meditate for two hours, it seems that the limits evaporate. but have I ever meditated or is it something I imagine now, in the dream? 

But in another hand, I see the dream right now, and I recognize the apparent as infinite, I recognize what seems not me as me, I recognize the dream as absolute. So, I see that to be awake is to be dreaming. 

[NoSelfSelf]

Get what you saying, coming to realization that its all a dream is  what is also part of the dream...

Conciousness is scary it can dream whatever it wants and how it wants it...

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, amanen said:

But I would like to say that there is no reason why God cannot be in a state that is not deceptive to itself at all, where it totally knows itself, does not imagine an other, and so on, a state where God is just God. God doesn't always have to dream of being a being.

That is the whole issue is how can you know that you are in a state with no self-deception at all?  As long as there is Mind, there is always self-deception knocking at the door.  The Dream Doubt still lingers.  Also, can God know itself?  How can God know itself if it is itself?  Knowledge is always about some part of God and yet God is all there is.  God/Existence/Consciousness is prior to knowing.  Knowing already creates a duality between the knower and the known.  I am just trying to understand.  I could be wrong.

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think: that is awakening. but that experience of infinity is something that I'm remembering right now. it is part of the current dream. It is only speculative. Right now I'm in the dream and I can't get out of it. if I meditate for two hours, it seems that the limits evaporate. but have I ever meditated or is it something I imagine now, in the dream? 

Yup.  That is what I am saying.  Awakening is imaginary.  I was lucid in my dream, but then I created a story when I wanted to share that with my mom. It is almost as if the lucidity/awakening was part of the dream. Can you think of other examples where this "need for sharing" happens? Why is it that when we awake, we have a desperate desire to share that with "others?"  Maybe it is another clever mind trick of the dream.  That is my hypothesis.

How powerful is the Mind?  If you think or "know" you have "awakened," then you have greatly underestimated the power of the Mind/self-deception & The Dream Doubt.  How do you know you are awake?  How do you know you aren't imagining/dreaming you are awake?  

[Hojo]

@r0ckyreed I've only had this happen to me once. I was in college and i woke up in my dream and went to my computer and then went back to bed and then woke up in my dream again and people on my computer were all sending me messages to leave cause a demon was coming into the building. I ran to the door but it was locked and it started shaking so I ran back to bed and hid under the covers. I was so scared I pushed myself out of sleep into sleep paralysis and I see death coming to me from my door. Then I'm so scared even more I push myself out of sleep paralysis into waking up and it was gone. Shortly after I drank way too much and had an nde and was revived within consciousness after infinite time of void. I think these dreams are to tell us something and to pay attention when we are given them. But also this is how schizophrenic feels all the time so don't take anything seriously either.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Hojo

[Holykael]

Awakening is death. Nobody is awake and never will be during the dream

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Mormegil said:

I've heard recently that true Awakening / Enlightenment is not an experience. If your Awakaning still feels like an experience, it is not final, or with your words: it still is part of the dream.

 

But... everything is experience.  Whoever told you that is most likely not awake.  That is like saying that lucid dreaming isn't an experience.  Everything is experience/consciousness.  Being awake or being asleep is all experience.  Final Nirvana/Awakening is a Buddhist's dream.

1 hour ago, Holykael said:

Awakening is death. Nobody is awake and never will be during the dream

But yet, death is a dream and there is nothing but dreaming.

Sleeping is a dream and waking up is a dream.  You have to wonder, what is it that I am waking up from and waking up into?  Layers and layers of Infinite Consciousness/Dream/Self-Deception!!

Edited November 11, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

But... everything is experience.  Whoever told you that is most likely not awake.  That is like saying that lucid dreaming isn't an experience.  Everything is experience/consciousness.  Being awake or being asleep is all experience.  Final Nirvana/Awakening is a Buddhist's dream.

But yet, death is a dream and there is nothing but dreaming.

Sleeping is a dream and waking up is a dream.  You have to wonder, what is it that I am waking up from and waking up into?  Layers and layers of Infinite Consciousness/Dream/Self-Deception!!

I already made a post about this....its just a story. Reality is a story that tells itself a story. If its not telling a story...then it doesn't exist. When no perception is there (Deep Sleep) there isn't a story...but once perception arises...the story begins. So yes everything is a dream/imagination/story. 

That is all there is...the story. Even Deep Sleep is a story...its the story of the absence of story. You could call it the Intermission if you will lol.

[r0ckyreed]

5 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You could call it the Intermission if you will lol.

Lmao! ?

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Lmao! ?

But I'm glad you noticed...what few ever will...that is why....there are no levels...levels...progression, is just more story. Destruction of levels....kills the ego, because the ego is always searching for more and more levels and meaning. 

Nothing wrong with that....but enlightenment is like being DeadPool.....you recognize that you are in a story and poke fun at it. 

https://www.cbr.com/deadpool-breaks-fourth-wall/

[Breakingthewall]

@r0ckyreed

awakening is not an history. It's the end of stories. the stories are lies. ego. we are actively creating history without stopping, our mind is a processor that does that by default. if the mind stops, the stories stop and only the truth remains. but if the mind starts again, the truth becomes a story, and therefore, a lie. the truth is only actual, as soon as the mind captures it, it becomes one more lie.